F2: Verbal 'interference'?

[HawkeyeCubP]

As ASA Casebook Play 1-79 specifically addresses defensive team members trying to confuse base runners, and specifically states "There is no penalty for a defensive player or coach yelling," I do not have anything but a lackadaisical runner, until someone convinces me otherwise.

Go.

[mcrowder]

Hawkeye, that statement is specifically for that POE, and not for this sitch. You have a fielder here using words typically used by an umpire. If this was legal, you'd have fielders yelling foul and out all the time trying to confuse the offense. Thing is, it's NOT legal. Look at the definition of obstruction, this sitch IS included.

[HawkeyeCubP]

And I searched the other discussions of verbal obstruction on the forum, and found the following from Mr. Rowe a while back:

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

B1 hits a high fly ball down the LF line and takes off. As he rounds 1B, the catcher scream "foul ball" while the umpire is pointing fair. B1 checks up and heads back to the plate as 1B coach is screaming for him to go to 2B.

As an umpire, I'm protecting that runner at least between 1B & 2B. Depending on the situation, I may keep him at 1B or award him 2B. There are probably a few umpires that would move him to 3B as an FYC for the catcher's stupidity. I cannot do that, my brain will not let me.

- and that makes sense as well.

I just needed lots of convincing in my mind, as it still seems to me, in some respect, that the statement I quoted from the Casebook play could/perhaps should be applied to more situations than simply the tag-up play it's being related to, as the ruling doesn't clarify itself by saying anything to the effect of "when runners are tagging up on fly balls" or offering any other clarifier.

It would be nice if this (using words typically used by an umpire) was laid out as either USC or OBS in type somewhere, specifically, for me. (I'm seeing a reoccurring theme with myself and what I want out of the rule/casebook. )

I'll take your word(s) on the subject. Just seems odd to me now. I'll give it time.

Thank you.

[IamMatt]

Here's a question, what purpose would F2 have in yelling out "Foul Ball" other than to affect the BR? Or, to whom would F2 legitmately be yelling "Foul Ball!" in the game sitch presented?

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by IamMatt

Here's a question, what purpose would F2 have in yelling out "Foul Ball" other than to affect the BR? Or, to whom would F2 legitmately be yelling "Foul Ball!" in the game sitch presented?

1. None that wouldn't be deemed unsportsmanlike.

2. Legitimately: no one.

Simply yelling at opposing players is not, in and of itself, against the rules.

Opposing players try to confuse opposing players all the time, especially in adult slow pitch. I think the resulting point of the discussion is that the behavior described is unacceptable because it's immitation of an umpire designed to confuse an opposing player - not simply because it's an act designed to confuse an opposing player.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

Simply yelling at opposing players is not, in and of itself, against the rules.

Well, yeah it can be.

Opposing players try to confuse opposing players all the time, especially in adult slow pitch. I think the resulting point of the discussion is that the behavior described is unacceptable because it's immitation of an umpire designed to confuse an opposing player - not simply because it's an act designed to confuse an opposing player.

This thread is about a person not permitted making a call which impeded the progress of a runner. It is against the rules. It is obstruction. The umpire's job is to recognize it, call it and render any award appropriate to off-set the violation.

[IamMatt]

That's why I asked my questions. It seemed to me that there could likely be no reason to yell "Foul Ball" like that OTHER than to obstruct the runner, unlike other examples of yelling by the defense (yelling "3!" might confuse the runner if he thinks it is a direction from his coach to continue to 3B, but it is a legitimate way for a defending player to indicate to their fielder to throw to 3B, general "Hey, batter, batter" chatter that may be annoying but is taken in stride and should not affect the actions of the offense, etc.)

[gsf23]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

I just needed lots of convincing in my mind, as it still seems to me, in some respect, that the statement I quoted from the Casebook play could/perhaps should be applied to more situations than simply the tag-up play it's being related to, as the ruling doesn't clarify itself by saying anything to the effect of "when runners are tagging up on fly balls" or offering any other clarifier.

It would be nice if this (using words typically used by an umpire) was laid out as either USC or OBS in type somewhere, specifically, for me. (I'm seeing a reoccurring theme with myself and what I want out of the rule/casebook. )

I'll take your word(s) on the subject. Just seems odd to me now. I'll give it time.

Thank you.

You can't cover every single situation in the casebook. I just don't see how you could not see this as obstruction. A player on the defense yelling "Foul" on a ball hit right down the line is akin to a basketball coach pulling out a whistle and blowing it as the other team is on a breakaway. Now, I've read the basektball rulebook and I don't remember it ever saying that a coach couldn't do this, but I'm pretty sure if it happend there would be consequences.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by gsf23

I've read the basektball rulebook and I don't remember it ever saying that a coach couldn't do this, but I'm pretty sure if it happend there would be consequences.

That's a good analogy.

[ChampaignBlue]

Now I had this years ago and I'll tell it again because it takes it even further. Same sitch except when the BR turned to question my eyesight and saw me vigorously indicating fair he took off running. The right fielder on the other hand came to a stop.
BR took a wiiiiiide turn at third and thought better of it and retreated because the ball was finally making it's way to the infield. I felt that if he hadn't turned in response to the catcher's yell he would have made home and I awarded it to him. When catcher complained that the fielder stopped too I pointed out that I can only be concerned with the obstruction, I can't control what he does to a teammate. He conceded the point.