verbal interference ???

[ump11]

Need Help with this......runner on 2nd....shortstop yells " BACK, BACK " imatating the third base coach....interference, obstruction ??? gotta be a rule somewhere for gaining an advantage..... can use 2.22 for fed...but what about major league ruling ???

[ozzy6900]

Verbal obstruction is in FED only. In OBR, the player "should know the sound of his own coach's voice" (NAPBL)

[Bfair]

Originally posted by ozzy6900
Verbal obstruction is in FED only. In OBR, the player "should know the sound of his own coach's voice" (NAPBL)

If you're going to call verbal obstruction at the Fed level, it needs to be a clear and unmistakeable action that obstructs the runner.

So, was the runner obstructed as a result of this action?
Did R2 break back to the base?
How do you know F6 was yelling at R2 to go back, and not yelling to F4 to indicate he (F6) was back in his proper position---thus meaning F4 should cover at 2B?

IMO, this is one that shouldn't be called at any level.


Just my opinion,

Freix

[woolnojg]

JMO Freix-
No shortstop has ever yelled at his partner that he was "BACK BACK" in position. That has not been taught by any coach that I have experience with, all levels. Ther can be only one person this is meant for and that is the runner. Treat it the same as any other OBS under FED.

[woolnojg]

Tim -
Actually had a blue on Wed. tell me he would not enforce a rule because"this isn't tennis." And this was in youth ball under FED rules. This guy is a lawsuit waiting to happen.
If you are calling FED rules then enforce the rules, all of them, not just the ones you like. Use judgement in the application but don't ignore the rule.
For the original post, it sounds like a HTBT to see what the call could/should have been.

[GarthB]

If you are calling FED rules then enforce the rules, all of them, not just the ones you like. Use judgement in the application but don't ignore the rule.

Do you believe the same in regards to OBR? And when you say "the rules" do you mean as written?

[woolnojg]

Position is simple. If it is in the book , then you can't ignore it because you don't like it.
However, your judgement says the rule may or may not apply to the situation at hand.
Fed says there can be verbal obstruction.Therefore, in your judgement, if you see (hear) it, then you call it.
OBR has no such rule so there is nothing there to call.

You call each game under the rulebook selected for that game. You do not mix & match the rules to your liking.
When you step outside the rulebook, you open the door to liabilty.

[David B]

Originally posted by woolnojg
When you step outside the rulebook, you open the door to liabilty.

I might see that on a malicious contact or something of that nature but on obstruction, its umpire judgement all the way, I don't see any thing to be liable about.

I agree that I would never call this since its accepted practice at HS and above.

I would call verbal interference, but only when it happens and F6 or F4 simply saying "back" is not IMO.

Thanks
David

[woolnojg]

Anything that passes through the strike zone is a strike. I use judgement to determine if that happened. Most pitchers like my zone, but I have not been above HS.

And if you have to ask "Liabilty to what?" then you are not as smart as I thought Tim C.

I do not care to find out how good the liabilty insurance that I pay for is. Too many people already try to second guess when they don't know anything.Had to beat a lawyer into submission once because he only thought he could read a rule book.

The original post refered to YELLING "BACK, BACK" at the runner. This is a HTBT to determine the call. All I said was it could be under Fed rules. Other codes don't cover this. Just because you don't like a rule doesn't mean you don't enforce it if it is applicable. Personally, I don't like the DH. I still need to enforce the rule properly since the schools use it.

[Bfair]

Originally posted by woolnojg
Tim -
Actually had a blue on Wed. tell me he would not enforce a rule because"this isn't tennis." And this was in youth ball under FED rules.

So, did he obstruct your runner?
That is, was your runner stupid enough to break back because F6 yelled, "Back?"
If so, poor coaching.......if not, then no obstruction, and you're just complainin' bout something you don't like.


Just my opinion,

Freix

[Bfair]

Originally posted by woolnojg

And if you have to ask "Liabilty to what?" then you are not as smart as I thought Tim C.

[snip]

The original post refered to YELLING "BACK, BACK" at the runner. This is a HTBT to determine the call. All I said was it could be under Fed rules. Other codes don't cover this. Just because you don't like a rule doesn't mean you don't enforce it if it is applicable. Personally, I don't like the DH. I still need to enforce the rule properly since the schools use it.

So, explain to me the "liability" about not calling verbal obstruction in a Fed game when a defensive player yells, "Back." I fail to see the connection, so I guess I'm at risk without even knowing..........

There are many things not enforced as per the written rule.
If you call a black and white book, you will be easy to pick out by all the $hithou$es occurring in your games.

Learning to umpire means learning how and when to call infractions. How well you are respected as an umpire will be based not only on your technical skills, but also on your ability to choose when to overlook small, technical violations that have little or no consequence on the game.


Freix

[woolnojg]

Bfair -
Check the posts. I never said it was my situation. I offered an opinion in answer to a question. The rule in question in my case was different. I asked about a situation between innings as I had a concern for the action that was occuring. All blue had to do was say, I'll look at it." and everything would have been fine. He would have been using his judgement to apply the rule or not. No arguement there. His respponse was, I don't enforce that rule. That means he knows of the rule and chose to ignore it.That attitude causes me great concern.

[ump11]

r1 did break back to 2nd after having great lead ...and it was without a doubt the shortstop piping up to gain an advantage....

[JRutledge]

woolnojg,

There is a term I live by in all the sports I do, "call the obvious."

If you are calling things that are nit picky at best, then you are going to have many problems in officiating. You want everyone to understand what is being called if they understand what the rule states. Yes there is verbal obstruction and inteference in FED ball. But you better be sure that you are calling the game in a way that everyone is not wondering what was just called. You might have an infielder call "Back, back" to the cutoff man. You cannot just assume that he is talking to the runner. And if you are not sure, then I think it is best to pass. If you need to warn so you make it clear that it will not be tolerated. Then if they do it again and again, you might have something. But in my opinion, good umpires are not calling things that no one understands. Pitching the ball within 20 seconds is a rule, but I will be damned if I enforce it just because the ball has not been thrown in that time. Now if a pitcher is deliberately delaying the game, that is another story. But if he is up there trying to figure out signs, than that is another story all together.

Peace

[David B]

Originally posted by ump11
r1 did break back to 2nd after having great lead ...and it was without a doubt the shortstop piping up to gain an advantage....

But the bottom line is that is simply bad baserunning.

how many times does a coach have to say, I've got the F6, you've got F4.

So all he has to do is listen to his coach.

You might get fooled once, but once you learn what's going on, its not that big a deal.

Thanks
David