Interference vs Fair/Foul

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

Batter hits a dribbler right down the third baseline. F5 charging and R1 from third are about parallel to each other coming down the line. F5 cuts in front of R1 to field the ball, but just as she's about to pick it up, R1 collides with her - they both fall, and no one touches the ball.

First question - should I be cognizant about the status (Fair/Foul) of the ball at the moment F5 likely would have picked up the ball? Does that even come into play?

Speaking ASA

Absolutely. The ball's status is determined by it's location at the time of the interference. What would have, could have, should have happened is irrelevant. INT freezes the play. ASA Rule 1, FAIR BALL.D

Second question - if the ball was never touched, and eventually stopped short of third base in foul territory (or rolled past third in foul territory), does that negate the interference?

No. See above.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by LMan

If the ball is hit "up the first base line," then how can it be fielded other than by moving into the base path? Would not BR be moving away from the rolling ball in any case, to avoid stepping on it?

If F3 is legitimately attempting to field this ball and not veering to 'crash' the BR (btw, what is F1 doing? ), then yes, shes fielding. In this case the BR must move out of the baseline to avoid F3. The "basepath" has no meaning here, since the ball has not yet been fielded and an attempt to tag/put out the BR has not yet occurred.

I'm still looking for the "no reasonable right to be there" part of your sitch

Here's the scenario....

R1 on 1B. B1 hits a slow roller up first base. F3 move's in front of R1. F1 is not moving toward the ball, neither is F2. Should they be? Yes, but lets just say they don't. F3 is standing in R1's way. But the ball never makes it to her. It stops well short. In my opinion, F3 is not in the act of fielding even though she reacted when the ball was hit. She had no reasonable expectation of fielding the ball. I've got obstruction. That's what I mean by "no reasonable right to be there". Suppose the ball was hit down third base line instead and F3 did the same thing. Does F3 have the right to stand in the way of R1? No. However, she did react to the ball. You'd have obstruction right? So why proctect F3 in the above scenario, when she had no reasonable expectation to field the ball?

[mcrowder]

OK... Now - my apologies because I intentionally asked the questions backward (regarding fair/foul). So now (keeping to the OP, ignoring the 1B-Line questions), does your opinion change if:

1) The ball is in FOUL territory at the moment R1 contacts F5. Do you still "immediately" rule interference? Is the act of fielding a ball in foul territory in order to prevent it from rolling fair considered "a play" in the context of "interfering with a play" or does the interference have to be "interference with a chance to get an out"?

2) If the ball was in FOUL territory, and we don't rule interference BECAUSE the ball was in foul territory... and then the ball rolls FAIR after the contact (and without being touched), do we retroactively rule Interference?

Here's why I think I botched it.

I ruled, on the field (alone - no partner), that R1 interfered with a play, in that F5 was trying to get the ball before it got back into fair ground. So, yeah, technically I have a dead ball and the ball never officially rolled fair while live, even though it did while dead. I called R1 out and placed BR on first base. Coach argued (quite possibly correctly) that R1 did not prevent F5 from getting an out, thus no play to be interfered with. I considered, "Dead ball!" at the time of interference, then coupled with "Foul Ball", which it was at the moment of the interference, and coincidentally was what WOULD have happened had there been no interference. In retrospect, if I was going to flub this one, I wish I'd flubbed it with this result as opposed to what I actually did.

Hence the reason I posted it here. This, coupled with the fact that I lended my rulebook to someone who's having to take the test without benefit of a group of umpires, thus I have no book to go get the exact verbiage on this rule from. I'd call my UIC or scheduler... but they are both me.

(Oh, and OBS is right out. F5 was the obvious fielder making a play. F1 was literally doing nothing, and F2 stayed home for the play there.)

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by rwest

Here's the scenario....

R1 on 1B. B1 hits a slow roller up first base. F3 move's in front of R1. F1 is not moving toward the ball, neither is F2. Should they be? Yes, but lets just say they don't. F3 is standing in R1's way. But the ball never makes it to her. It stops well short. In my opinion, F3 is not in the act of fielding even though she reacted when the ball was hit. She had no reasonable expectation of fielding the ball. I've got obstruction. That's what I mean by "no reasonable right to be there". Suppose the ball was hit down third base line instead and F3 did the same thing. Does F3 have the right to stand in the way of R1? No. However, she did react to the ball. You'd have obstruction right? So why proctect F3 in the above scenario, when she had no reasonable expectation to field the ball?

Sounds like a great topic for a separate post, as I'd like to respond, but don't want to confuse the issue I was dealing with last night.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

Absolutely. The ball's status is determined by it's location at the time of the interference. What would have, could have, should have happened is irrelevant. INT freezes the play. ASA Rule 1, FAIR BALL.D

So does it freeze it if contact occurs while the ball is foul? Does that change the sitch? And how would you have reacted to the play I describe a couple of posts above?

The real question - Is it interference if contact occurs while a ground ball is in foul territory? And if so, what's the penalty? And if it's not, then since we haven't killed the ball, what to do if it subsequently rolls fair?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

So does it freeze it if contact occurs while the ball is foul? Does that change the sitch? And how would you have reacted to the play I describe a couple of posts above?

The real question - Is it interference if contact occurs while a ground ball is in foul territory? And if so, what's the penalty? And if it's not, then since we haven't killed the ball, what to do if it subsequently rolls fair?

Yes, if freezes the play - definition FOUL BALL - D (ASA).

If a runner interferes with a fielder attempting field a batted ball over foul territory, it is by definition a foul ball.

The call is dead ball, foul, runner return, batter back in the box.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by LMan

I hate yalls terminology

[LMan]

Originally Posted by rwest

Here's the scenario....

R1 on 1B. B1 hits a slow roller up first base. F3 move's in front of R1. F1 is not moving toward the ball, neither is F2. Should they be? Yes, but lets just say they don't. F3 is standing in R1's way. But the ball never makes it to her. It stops well short. In my opinion, F3 is not in the act of fielding even though she reacted when the ball was hit. She had no reasonable expectation of fielding the ball. I've got obstruction. That's what I mean by "no reasonable right to be there". Suppose the ball was hit down third base line instead and F3 did the same thing. Does F3 have the right to stand in the way of R1? No. However, she did react to the ball. You'd have obstruction right? So why proctect F3 in the above scenario, when she had no reasonable expectation to field the ball?

ah! OK, thats clear. I didnt realize you meant R1 and not the batter-runner...must be that terminology thing again

Almost a TWP, but I see your point, if F3 is playing behind the bag and esp since R1 must advance to 2B. I can see myself making that call, and on the ensuing discussion asking the rat "well, where were your pitcher and cather doing all this time?"

[rwest]

Originally Posted by LMan

ah! OK, thats clear. I didnt realize you meant R1 and not the batter-runner...must be that terminology thing again

Almost a TWP, but I see your point, if F3 is playing behind the bag and esp since R1 must advance to 2B. I can see myself making that call, and on the ensuing discussion asking the rat "well, where were your pitcher and cather doing all this time?"

I actually had this same scenario in a game. It was rec league (actually at my Church) and the skill level is not, shall we say, very high. I call these games as a service to the girls, many of whom I know. F3 set up in the baseline between 1st and 2nd at TOP (time of pitch). The ball was a slow roller down 1st base line. F3 reacted but did not advance. R1 on 1B collided with F3. I probably should have called Obstruction, because in my opinion F3 should not have been fielding that ball. F1 nor F2 moved on the play. The ball never made it to F3 on its own momemtum. She had to go up and get the ball. Which she eventually did after getting untangled with R1. It worked out in the end, though. She got the ball and tagged 1B for the force out. Last out of the game.

I've also seen a similar play at home. Suppose there's a short dribbler out in front of the plate. F2 is slow to react. The BR is not. She immediately takes off for 1B. If F2 then realizes she needs to make a play on the ball and steps in front of BR who can't avoid the contact, what do you have? Obstruction, Interference or Train Wreck?

[WestMichBlue]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

The real question - Is it interference if contact occurs while a ground ball is in foul territory?

Once again, if you are calling NFHS (and ASA) and the offender is a runner, the answer is NO. NFHS 8-6.10: The runner is out if the runner interferes (a) with a fielder attempting to field a batted fair ball, or (b) with a fielder attempting to field a fly ball over foul territory.

However, if it the batter-runner is the offender, then we call interference. NFHS 8-2.6 The batter-runner is out if she interferes with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball.

Yes, that is inconsistant. But it is that way because NFHS copied ASA verbatim (ASA 8-7.J 1 & 2, and 8-2.F). And because ASA was inconsistant before, now both rule sets rule a similiar situation differently, depending on whether the interfence is on the 3B line or the 1B line.

WMB

[NKYFP FAN]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowder
The real question - Is it interference if contact occurs while a ground ball is in foul territory?


Once again, if you are calling NFHS (and ASA) and the offender is a runner, the answer is NO. NFHS 8-6.10: The runner is out if the runner interferes (a) with a fielder attempting to field a batted fair ball, or (b) with a fielder attempting to field a fly ball over foul territory.

However, if it the batter-runner is the offender, then we call interference. NFHS 8-2.6 The batter-runner is out if she interferes with a fielder attempting to field a batted ball.

Yes, that is inconsistant. But it is that way because NFHS copied ASA verbatim (ASA 8-7.J 1 & 2, and 8-2.F). And because ASA was inconsistant before, now both rule sets rule a similiar situation differently, depending on whether the interfence is on the 3B line or the 1B line.

WMB:


No, WMB NFHS does not have different rules for the first base line and third base line. A batter who hits a foul ball is not a BR and Rule 8-2-6 does not take affect untill or unless the ball becomes FAIR. A batter becomes a BR when she hits a FAIR ball, NOT a FOUL ball.
In the original Sitch, the ball is in the air over fair territory (batter becomes a BR) then bounces foul (BR becomes a batter who happens to be running) and then there is contact between the players. This is nothing but a foul ball.
Rule 2-25-e. A foul ball is a batted ball that: e. while over foul territory, a runner interferes with a defensive player attempting to field a batted ball;

It's very simple. If a runner on either foul line interferes with a fielder attempting to field a FAIR batted ball it is interference and the runner is out and all other runners return. If a runner on either foul line interferes with a fielder attempting to field a GROUND BALL over foul territory it is a foul ball and all runners return and the batter also returns to the batter's box.

So yes, the location of the ball on the field at the time of the contact does make a difference as to what you call.


NKYFP FAN