The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 10, 2006, 08:49am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Little Elm, TX (NW Dallas)
Posts: 4,047
Interference vs Fair/Foul

Batter hits a dribbler right down the third baseline. F5 charging and R1 from third are about parallel to each other coming down the line. F5 cuts in front of R1 to field the ball, but just as she's about to pick it up, R1 collides with her - they both fall, and no one touches the ball.

First question - should I be cognizant about the status (Fair/Foul) of the ball at the moment F5 likely would have picked up the ball? Does that even come into play?

Second question - if the ball was never touched, and eventually stopped short of third base in foul territory (or rolled past third in foul territory), does that negate the interference?

I feel like I botched one here, but want to hear the answers to these two questions first before I tell the rest.

(Edited to add) : ASA Rules
__________________
"Many baseball fans look upon an umpire as a sort of necessary evil to the luxury of baseball, like the odor that follows an automobile." - Hall of Fame Pitcher Christy Mathewson

Last edited by mcrowder; Wed May 10, 2006 at 10:45am.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 10, 2006, 09:13am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowder
Batter hits a dribbler right down the third baseline. F5 charging and R1 from third are about parallel to each other coming down the line. F5 cuts in front of R1 to field the ball, but just as she's about to pick it up, R1 collides with her - they both fall, and no one touches the ball.

First question - should I be cognizant about the status (Fair/Foul) of the ball at the moment F5 likely would have picked up the ball? Does that even come into play?

Second question - if the ball was never touched, and eventually stopped short of third base in foul territory (or rolled past third in foul territory), does that negate the interference?

I feel like I botched one here, but want to hear the answers to these two questions first before I tell the rest.
I would say INT.
Q1 If no play was possible because it clearly (in the umpire's judgement) would be foul without the contact, then I guess not.

Q2 - no, if it was INT when there was a chance for a play in fair ground.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 10, 2006, 09:15am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Suwanee Georgia
Posts: 1,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrowder
Batter hits a dribbler right down the third baseline. F5 charging and R1 from third are about parallel to each other coming down the line. F5 cuts in front of R1 to field the ball, but just as she's about to pick it up, R1 collides with her - they both fall, and no one touches the ball.

First question - should I be cognizant about the status (Fair/Foul) of the ball at the moment F5 likely would have picked up the ball? Does that even come into play?

Second question - if the ball was never touched, and eventually stopped short of third base in foul territory (or rolled past third in foul territory), does that negate the interference?

I feel like I botched one here, but want to hear the answers to these two questions first before I tell the rest.
Answer to First Question: I don't believe we consider what could of happened except in cases of Obstruction. So you either have interference or obstruction or a train wreck.

Answer to Second Questsion: The status of the ball has no bearing on interference in this case. If you deemed it interference then you would have killed the ball immediately when the interference occurred. So what the ball did after that is irrelevant.

This is an interesting play. F5 was in the act of fielding the ball but had to cut in front of the runner to do so. Wow! I could argue for either obstruction or interference. However, once the ball went foul then I believe obstruction would be negated by the status of the ball.
__________________
Gwinnett Umpires Association
Multicounty Softball Association
Multicounty Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 10, 2006, 09:24am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
"in the act of fielding the ball " can't be OBS
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 10, 2006, 09:25am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest
I could argue for either obstruction or interference.
I don't see how it could possibly be obstruction unless you ruled F1 or F2 were the protected fielder attempting to field the batted ball.

If the ball was still a fair ball at the time of the collision, this sounds like interference to me. What the ball does after that is irrelevant.
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 10, 2006, 09:37am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,577
I have INT all the way. The fielder has nearly 100% protection while attempted to field a fair batted ball. The onus is on R3 to avoid.

What the ball does later is irrelevant.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 10, 2006, 09:42am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by LMan
The onus is on R3 to avoid.
Ahem... R1. (This is a softball board.)
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 10, 2006, 09:45am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Suwanee Georgia
Posts: 1,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
I don't see how it could possibly be obstruction unless you ruled F1 or F2 were the protected fielder attempting to field the batted ball.

If the ball was still a fair ball at the time of the collision, this sounds like interference to me. What the ball does after that is irrelevant.
I agree that if the umpire deems the fielder in the act of fielding then we have interference. Does the reasonableness of fielding the ball every come into consideration? Here's an example. R1 on first base. Slow roller hit up the first base line. F3 moves up into the base path of R1. The ball stops well short of F3 who then has to move up to get to the ball. Do you consider F3 in the act of fielding when she moved up? If so, you have interference when R1 collides with F3. But my contention is that a smart F3 might obstruct the runner but claim she was in the act of fielding. If to field the ball she needed to move further up first base line then I think we have obstruction. In other words, do you protect a fielder who is within the runners base path and they have no reasonable right to be there (i.e no chance of fielding the ball in that position)?
__________________
Gwinnett Umpires Association
Multicounty Softball Association
Multicounty Basketball Officials Association
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 10, 2006, 09:47am
Al Al is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 207
Send a message via Yahoo to Al
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
I don't see how it could possibly be obstruction unless you ruled F1 or F2 were the protected fielder attempting to field the batted ball.

If the ball was still a fair ball at the time of the collision, this sounds like interference to me. What the ball does after that is irrelevant.
I agree Dakota, the runner must avoid the fielder attempting to field the ball. So in this case the runner would be out even though the ball was not touched on fair ground and ended up foul after the infraction. ..Al
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 10, 2006, 10:04am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota
Ahem... R1. (This is a softball board.)
LOL Fine...I'll scuttle back under my baseball rock now
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 10, 2006, 10:09am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest
I agree that if the umpire deems the fielder in the act of fielding then we have interference. Does the reasonableness of fielding the ball every come into consideration? Here's an example. R1 on first base. Slow roller hit up the first base line. F3 moves up into the base path of R1. The ball stops well short of F3 who then has to move up to get to the ball. Do you consider F3 in the act of fielding when she moved up? If so, you have interference when R1 collides with F3. But my contention is that a smart F3 might obstruct the runner but claim she was in the act of fielding. If to field the ball she needed to move further up first base line then I think we have obstruction. In other words, do you protect a fielder who is within the runners base path and they have no reasonable right to be there (i.e no chance of fielding the ball in that position)?
"In the act" includes the approach to the ball from where the fielder was positioned. If the fielder intentionally impeded the runner in the meantime, the only recoure is probably UC.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 10, 2006, 10:10am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,577
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest
I agree that if the umpire deems the fielder in the act of fielding then we have interference. Does the reasonableness of fielding the ball every come into consideration? Here's an example. R1 on first base. Slow roller hit up the first base line. F3 moves up into the base path of R1. The ball stops well short of F3 who then has to move up to get to the ball. Do you consider F3 in the act of fielding when she moved up? If so, you have interference when R1 collides with F3. But my contention is that a smart F3 might obstruct the runner but claim she was in the act of fielding. If to field the ball she needed to move further up first base line then I think we have obstruction. In other words, do you protect a fielder who is within the runners base path and they have no reasonable right to be there (i.e no chance of fielding the ball in that position)?
If the ball is hit "up the first base line," then how can it be fielded other than by moving into the base path? Would not BR be moving away from the rolling ball in any case, to avoid stepping on it?

If F3 is legitimately attempting to field this ball and not veering to 'crash' the BR (btw, what is F1 doing? ), then yes, shes fielding. In this case the BR must move out of the baseline to avoid F3. The "basepath" has no meaning here, since the ball has not yet been fielded and an attempt to tag/put out the BR has not yet occurred.

I'm still looking for the "no reasonable right to be there" part of your sitch
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 10, 2006, 10:14am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: West Michigan
Posts: 964
mcrowder: First question - should I be cognizant about the status (Fair/Foul) of the ball at the moment F5 likely would have picked up the ball? Does that even come into play

If NFHS, YES. If the ball is on the ground and over foul territory, you have foul ball. If it is in the air over foul territory you have interference, R1 called out.

When you changed the play to 1B line you have a different rule - now you have a batter-runner (rather than runner). If B-R interferes with defender (F1, F3) on a batted ball in the air or on the ground, you can call interference. If it is in the air, you should have an easy call. If it in on the ground, then it probably ought to be near the line such that it has a chance to roll fair.

WMB
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 10, 2006, 10:15am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: The Land Of The Free and The Home Of The Brave (MD/DE)
Posts: 6,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by LMan
If the ball is hit "up the first base line," then how can it be fielded other than by moving into the base path? Would not BR be moving away from the rolling ball in any case, to avoid stepping on it?

If F3 is legitimately attempting to field this ball and not veering to 'crash' the BR (btw, what is F1 doing? ), then yes, shes fielding. In this case the BR must move out of the baseline to avoid F3. The "basepath" has no meaning here, since the ball has not yet been fielded and an attempt to tag/put out the BR has not yet occurred.

I'm still looking for the "no reasonable right to be there" part of your sitch
The post said R1, not BR, but the same principle would apply.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT.
It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Wed May 10, 2006, 10:16am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,577
I hate yalls terminology
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Interference/obstruction vs. fair/foul KentuckyBlue Softball 4 Mon Oct 13, 2003 09:07pm
Fair or Foul Gre144 Baseball 18 Sun Jun 29, 2003 12:20am
Fair or Foul? JustaFan2 Softball 2 Tue Jun 17, 2003 06:52pm
Fair or foul??? ahouk Baseball 6 Wed Jun 04, 2003 03:09pm
fair or foul ??? bobbrix Softball 4 Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:19am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:03am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1