Was it a strike?

[DKDsMom]

My daughter just moved up to U12 softball this year and our first game ended in a forfeit because of the behavior of the other coach. Unfortunately, we have High School students officiating our games not professional umpires. The question I have is are there times when a pitched ball bounces on home plate is called a strike? This seemed to be the main point of disagreement between the coach and the umpire. Thank you for helping out a novice.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by DKDsMom

My daughter just moved up to U12 softball this year and our first game ended in a forfeit because of the behavior of the other coach. Unfortunately, we have High School students officiating our games not professional umpires. The question I have is are there times when a pitched ball bounces on home plate is called a strike? This seemed to be the main point of disagreement between the coach and the umpire. Thank you for helping out a novice.

If the batter swings at it.

[DKDsMom]

The batter did not swing. The umpire and several HS softball players insist that there are times when a pitched ball can hit home plate and be called a strike. I would like to know what those circumstances are.

[CLBuffalo]

If it passes through the Twilight Zone before reaching the plate.

[Justme]

Originally Posted by DKDsMom

The batter did not swing. The umpire and several HS softball players insist that there are times when a pitched ball can hit home plate and be called a strike. I would like to know what those circumstances are.

The umpire and several HS softball players are WRONG!

As was stated earlier, the batter would have to swing at the pitch.

[Dakota]

Speaking ASA fastpitch, a pitched ball which touches the ground before reaching home plate or touches home plate, and the batter does not swing, is by rule, a BALL.

Since you mentioned you had high school students as umpires, this is also true for high school softball.

If the pitched ball hits the plate, and is not swung at, it is a BALL, regardless of whether it went through the strike zone or not.

The ASA Rule is 7-5-A. The NHFS (high school) rule is 7-2-2-EFFECT.

[CLBuffalo]

ASA 7-5-A (Fast Pitch) lists 3 separate and distinct circumstances. A legally pitched ball which does not enter the strike zone, which touches the ground before reaching home plate, or which touches home plate and the batter does not swing. By this definition a pitched ball that lands on home plate has not passed through the strike zone.

ASA 1 - Definitions - Strike Zone. When a batter assumes a natural batting stance adjacent to home plate. The NFHS definition does not have the word ‘adjacent’ but I think it should be understood as such. By either definition, no matter how close together a batter’s legs may be, it is physically impossible for a pitched ball (even an arc pitch) to touch the plate and have gone over the top of both of the batter’s knees.

[Igotthetag]

CLB...why do you say both knees? I have it as a strike if it clears one knee when passing over the plate...what happens after that, with the caveat that it must also clear the plate, is incidental. It's in the zone. Just a question.

Duane

[CLBuffalo]

Originally Posted by Igotthetag

CLB...why do you say both knees? I have it as a strike if it clears one knee when passing over the plate...what happens after that, with the caveat that it must also clear the plate, is incidental. It's in the zone. Just a question.

Duane

I don't say both knees. ASA and NFHS say both knees in their definitions of the strike zone. Perhaps you are thinking of the slow pitch strike zone where it only has to pass over the front knee but then if it hits the plate it is a dead ball and a ball.

[Igotthetag]

No, I'm pretty sure that the definition of a strike does not require that it be above both knees in fast pitch. The pitch only needs to break the plane of the front edge of the plate within the bounds of the strike zone and then it can drop, curve, rise, do whatever even if it carrys the ball outside the strike zone it is still going to be a strike. JMHO.

Duane

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Igotthetag

No, I'm pretty sure that the definition of a strike does not require that it be above both knees in fast pitch. The pitch only needs to break the plane of the front edge of the plate within the bounds of the strike zone and then it can drop, curve, rise, do whatever even if it carrys the ball outside the strike zone it is still going to be a strike. JMHO.

Duane

Where do you see "the front edge of the plate" in a definition or rule?

[CLBuffalo]

Originally Posted by Igotthetag

No, I'm pretty sure that the definition of a strike does not require that it be above both knees in fast pitch. The pitch only needs to break the plane of the front edge of the plate within the bounds of the strike zone and then it can drop, curve, rise, do whatever even if it carrys the ball outside the strike zone it is still going to be a strike. JMHO.

Duane

If you are a fast pitch umpire then good luck selling this.

If you are a fast pitch pitcher or catcher then good luck getting it called.

[Smiley]

Technically, it doesn't have to break the front plane, but usually, it does. The requirement is that any part of the ball passes through the zone, which is defined as the space over the plate and between the forward armpit and the knees. This is a cubical space, which a part of the ball must pass through. It could theoretically enter from any of 5 sides (not the back plane), and exit through any of the other sides. It does not need to stay above both knees.

[justmom]

Originally Posted by Smiley

Technically, it doesn't have to break the front plane, but usually, it does. The requirement is that any part of the ball passes through the zone, which is defined as the space over the plate and between the forward armpit and the knees. This is a cubical space, which a part of the ball must pass through. It could theoretically enter from any of 5 sides (not the back plane), and exit through any of the other sides. It does not need to stay above both knees.

I wish someone could post a diagram of this as viewed from the side. I can almost visualize a ball hitting the back edge of the plate that may have passed through the front of the strike zone. But, it seems like the pitched ball would have a ridiculously high arc, or be a really good drop ball....any mathematicians on this board?

[Al]

Originally Posted by CLBuffalo

I don't say both knees. ASA and NFHS say both knees in their definitions of the strike zone. Perhaps you are thinking of the slow pitch strike zone where it only has to pass over the front knee but then if it hits the plate it is a dead ball and a ball.

CLBuffalo,

Speaking of slow pitch... (must have 6 to 10 foot arch) Here in our town we have men's slow pitch tournament games on weekends where the umpires call strikes only if the ball touches the plate or the plate extention. The umpires don't even stand directly behind the catcher, but off to the side to see if the ball bounces off the plate or extention for the strike. It seems this strike zone must not be too common from what I observed from some of the complaints coming from the dugouts... "Hey blue the ball hit the #&^@#% plate! I spoke with one of the umpires and asked if he had a pre-game talk with the coaches about this strike zone and he said yes he did. I guess the coaches didn't make it clear to some on their players. They have another rule that also makes the job of umpiring easier. Each team is allowed only 1 over the fence home run, (300 feet). If a second home run comes the inning is over, even if they had no outs, plus the other team gets 2 runs. If a 3rd home run comes the inning is over , and the other team gets 3 runs...etc. etc. Sure changes the swing of the power hitters! It probably shortens the game too. ...Fun at the ole' ball park! ...Al