Was it a strike?

[CLBuffalo]

Originally Posted by Al

CLBuffalo,

Speaking of slow pitch... (must have 6 to 10 foot arch) Here in our town we have men's slow pitch tournament games on weekends where the umpires call strikes only if the ball touches the plate or the plate extention. The umpires don't even stand directly behind the catcher, but off to the side to see if the ball bounces off the plate or extention for the strike. It seems this strike zone must not be too common from what I observed from some of the complaints coming from the dugouts... "Hey blue the ball hit the #&^@#% plate! I spoke with one of the umpires and asked if he had a pre-game talk with the coaches about this strike zone and he said yes he did. I guess the coaches didn't make it clear to some on their players. They have another rule that also makes the job of umpiring easier. Each team is allowed only 1 over the fence home run, (300 feet). If a second home run comes the inning is over, even if they had no outs, plus the other team gets 2 runs. If a 3rd home run comes the inning is over , and the other team gets 3 runs...etc. etc. Sure changes the swing of the power hitters! It probably shortens the game too. ...Fun at the ole' ball park! ...Al

Now that is an interesting strike zone and I've never seen or heard it before. I do see that it would be very easy to call. How long has this been in effect? As for the home runs, I've done slow pitch tournaments (NSA) where that was the same penalty for too many home runs.

[Al]

Don't know what happened to my reply Chester...but I'll try again.

I don't know how long this has been the strike zone, but when I think about it I don't recall hearing anyone complain about it except a few from the dugouts. No fan or actual batter at the plate complained. And the batters were not having to swing at low pitches. Very few walks and plenty of hard hit liners.

I asked the one umpire what one thing he learned over the years that he credits for improving his work the most. He said "if you work with a partner make sure you have good communications. Think ahead and remind each other of certain situations such as in field fly etc"... I have to hurry along....Later, ..Al

I think I may start a thread and ask the guys and ladies on this board what helped their game the most as well. ...

[IRISHMAFIA]

Speaking ASA

Anyone ever NOT call a strike because the ball was at the front knee, but not the back? If you have, you need to get a job at NASA calibrating the Hubble telescope.

SP is a 6-12 foot arc.

IMO, mat ball is a joke. Umpires who work it and stand to the side are not too smart. You're going to see a lot more foul balls to the outside than you will ever see, or duck, in the slot.

[Al]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

Anyone ever NOT call a strike because the ball was at the front knee, but not the back? If you have, you need to get a job at NASA calibrating the Hubble telescope.

SP is a 6-12 foot arc.

IMO, mat ball is a joke. Umpires who work it and stand to the side are not too smart. You're going to see a lot more foul balls to the outside than you will ever see, or duck, in the slot.

Hey Mike,

There were four fields having games most of the day, and of all the umpires I watched only one stood behind the plate. I think because the catchers all stood up directly behind the plate and plate extension "mat". One umpire got hit in the leg with a thrown bat from a right handed batter. He always stood to the left side of both right handed and left handed batters. The way he was limping around in pain it was obvious he was not wearing any shin guards under his pants. I don't know what the rule is for throwing a bat but the umpire didn't say or do anything. Anyway I enjoyed the games. ...One big powerful looking man hit the rooftop of a grounds crew building that stood at least 60 feet past the 300 foot fence. At that time one of the ground crew employees told me he parks on the other side of that same building and he his car got hit by one monster shot. One of the umpires told me they use a pretty lively ball .44 hardness, and some very good bats.

I asked one blue if they need more umpires and what they pay. He told me he is paid $17.00 per game if with a partner, and $30 if by himself. I get $25 for T-Ball and coach-pitch, ...with or without a partner. Take care, ..Al

[CLBuffalo]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

Anyone ever NOT call a strike because the ball was at the front knee, but not the back? If you have, you need to get a job at NASA calibrating the Hubble telescope.

The original post was about fast pitch, not slow pitch. If you mean fast pitch then guilty. I would never call a strike that only passed over the front knee.

If you mean slow pitch then I do call it provided the pitch didn't hit the plate.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CLBuffalo

The original post was about fast pitch, not slow pitch. If you mean fast pitch then guilty. I would never call a strike that only passed over the front knee.

And my contention is that you cannot tell the difference from any umpire stance.

[CLBuffalo]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And my contention is that you cannot tell the difference from any umpire's stance.

In fast pitch I'm watching for the ball to go over the back knee. I can't imagine a ball going under the front knee and then over the back knee. Are you saying that in fast pitch it only has to go over the front knee and not hit the plate for it to be a strike or that the umpire only has to see it go over the front knee?

I have been reading your posts on this and other forums since 1988. I respect your opinions and expertise. I am really trying to understand what you are saying.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Al,

The mat as a strike zone is unfair to both batter and pitcher. It is also a waste of money and officiating resources. Then again, you live in an area where they use umpires for t-ball and coach pitch, so obviously, your association is not hurting for umpires. Of that, I am envious.

[IRISHMAFIA]

FP

All I'm saying is that I don't believe ANY umpire from any accepted/standard plate stance can tell if the ball actually went over one knee, but not the other regardless of whether it was the front or back knee.

[CLBuffalo]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

FP

All I'm saying is that I don't believe ANY umpire from any accepted/standard plate stance can tell if the ball actually went over one knee, but not the other regardless of whether it was the front or back knee.

OK - got it and I agree. That is why I use the back knee.

[Smiley]

Then you are not calling by the NFHS strike zone, unless the back knee is at the front of the plate. The only requirement is that any part of the ball pass through the strike zone, which is above the knees, which should be at the same level. What do you do if the batter is in the back of the batter's box, three feet behind the plate?

[CLBuffalo]

Originally Posted by Smiley

Then you are not calling by the NFHS strike zone, unless the back knee is at the front of the plate. The only requirement is that any part of the ball pass through the strike zone, which is above the knees, which should be at the same level. What do you do if the batter is in the back of the batter's box, three feet behind the plate?

I don't use a moving strike zone based on where the batter is in the box. I use the natural stance when the batter is adjacent to the plate.

[mcrowder]

I don't even look at their knees after they've entered the box. The rule doesn't say the ball must go over a particular knee (or both) - it says it must enter the zone above the plate at that height. I don't care how far up or back they stand, the zone is over the plate (front OR back).

And at younger levels, a ball can DEFINITELY be at that height at the front of the plate, and not be there at the back of the plate - and it's still a strike. You can even have what WOULD HAVE been a strike (i.e. passed through the strike zone) end up hitting the plate (and being a ball because of it). If their knees were lined up at the front and back of the plate, then I certainly can see where ANYone (not just trained umpires in certain stances) could see that it was above the front knee and not above the back.

[Al]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Al,

The mat as a strike zone is unfair to both batter and pitcher. It is also a waste of money and officiating resources. Then again, you live in an area where they use umpires for t-ball and coach pitch, so obviously, your association is not hurting for umpires. Of that, I am envious.

Hey Mike,

As I watched several games I didn't see very many walks or called strike-outs.
It seemed both pitcher and batter were happy with this mat strike zone. I know the umpires were happy because they didn't get any noise from the fans or batters that the ball was high, low, outside, or inside. Can't miss the ball bouncing off the plate. If there was no swing & miss etc. and the ball dropped on the plate; or the extension, it was a strike, if not it was a ball. (and very hittable as long as the ball was not flat, in which case it was called a ball even if it hit the plate.)
Now you have me wanting to ask the pitcher if he thinks this is unfair from a pitchers point of view. It seems if one has a disadvantage it may be the pitcher, but like I said they all seemed happy. Maybe cause they know if they get the ball where they are aiming it will be a sure strike if the batter don't swing at it. ...I'm going to try to get to the park to watch more games over the next few Saturday's to get some feed back from a pitcher or two. I'm very nosy as you can probably tell. ...Al

[IRISHMAFIA]

Al,

Unfair to batter - There is no requirement to hit the strike zone, which means the 5'2" batter has the same "zone" as the 6'6" batter. If you are the latter, you probably don't care. However, if you are the previous, you might have a problem. A pitch can hit the front of the plate, never coming even close to the batter's front knee and it's a strike.

Unfair to the pitcher - A legal 7' pitch can clear the mat even though it is a perfectly good pitch in a legal strike zone and be ruled a ball because it missed the mat. A pitcher is more of a target as s/he must throw the ball down the middle. No curves, no catching the corners, etc.