Cute situation from another board

[greymule]

If a runner passes another runner on a foul ball in one of my games, I'm returning all runners. This year. But since the book isn't 100% clear, I'd support Mike's suggested addition. However, I suspect that ASA's current interpretation would be simply foul ball, runners return. (But who knows for sure?)

Also:

the [OBS] rule is also clear that you only award the base that would have been reached absent the OBS

Abel on 2B, Baker on 1B, 2 out. Charles smashes a one-hopper to F5, who gloves it two steps from 3B. F6 obstucts Abel, 50 feet from 3B, a half second before F5 steps on 3B for the force on Abel.

In ASA, the ball is dead as soon as Abel is put out. Abel is awarded 3B, Baker goes to 2B, and Charles goes to 1B. The fact that absent the OBS, Abel was out by a mile is irrelevant. The OBS overrides the fielding play.

So we could also argue, if we take the book literally, that OBS during a fly ball that is eventually caught also overrides the catch. After all, in Fed, a call of "foul" on a pop fly eventually caught overrides the action on the field. The catch is nullified, and the ball is foul.

I think that if we take the book 100% literally, we could come up will any number of rules that umpires routinely contradict.

Abel on 2B is the winning run in the bottom of the 7th. Baker gets a hit to left field and Abel tries to score ahead of F7's throw. So that he can direct Abel in his approach to the plate, Charles, the on-deck batter, places himself in foul territory 15 feet behind home plate on the direct line from 3B through home. F7's throw is in the dirt, deflects off F2's knee, and hits Charles just before Abel's foot touches the plate.

OK, guys. The book is to be taken 100% literally. That's a blocked ball by the offense. Abel back to 3B.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by greymule

Abel on 2B is the winning run in the bottom of the 7th. Baker gets a hit to left field and Abel tries to score ahead of F7's throw. So that he can direct Abel in his approach to the plate, Charles, the on-deck batter, places himself in foul territory 15 feet behind home plate on the direct line from 3B through home. F7's throw is in the dirt, deflects off F2's knee, and hits Charles just before Abel's foot touches the plate.

OK, guys. The book is to be taken 100% literally. That's a blocked ball by the offense. Abel back to 3B.

Speaking ASA

Wouldn't that depend on whether the ODB was engaged in the game? The ODB, by rule, is permitted to leave the ODC to direct a runner. To me, that sounds like the ODB is performing a duty which is part of the game. Can that be considered "engaged" in the game? If so, it is nothing UNLESS, in the umpire's judgment, deprives the defense's ability to make an out.

[fastpitch]

I sure would like to know what the other board is - if someone would send me the link sure would appreciate it.

[MNBlue]

http://www.nfhs.org/scriptcontent/va...;f=13;t=000507

[greymule]

Wouldn't that depend on whether the ODB was engaged in the game?

True. If this play ever occurs (and somebody actually comes to me with the claim that it's a blocked ball), I'll use "engaged in the game" as my refutation. Thanks.

Now let's work on how to prevent a team from benefiting from committing deliberate interference.

[greymule]

Well, I was wrong. Bob Mauger, Region 2 UIC, responded without doubt or hesitation:

The runner who is passing is out. The foul situation is not applicable, because the ball is not foul until touched or the ball has stopped in foul ground. I can't compare this play with other rule books (except Fed.), which is the same as ASA.

In a parallel situation, I guess that at the levels where home runs don't have to be run out, if BR Baker passes R1 Abel before the ball hits over the fence, Baker is out.

[LIIRISHMAN]

You'll be ejecting the offensive coach on this one even if out is the proper ruling. unless the defensive coach comes out to argue the call I'd try to sell the foul ball call, runners go back to last base before calling the runner out for passing. Just my 2 cents.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by greymule

Well, I was wrong. Bob Mauger, Region 2 UIC, responded without doubt or hesitation:

The runner who is passing is out. The foul situation is not applicable, because the ball is not foul until touched or the ball has stopped in foul ground. I can't compare this play with other rule books (except Fed.), which is the same as ASA.

Which is why I will submit the change.

[Dakota]

Well, this reached a conclusion I was not expecting. I guess since I spend a lot of time and put a lot of effort into understanding the rules, I should have known. But, I was buying the "reset the play, it was a foul ball" argument and was originally asking about mechanics... what to do if the BU calls the runner out?

I guess the answer is, eject the OC!


I hope you get the rule change approved, Mike.

[rodan55]

We are looking for outs folks.lol Since the rule states passing during a live ball situation, the runner should be declared out and if foul returning the remaining runners to the base occupied TOP, until the rule changes. Where's Henry and Merle when you need them? Why should we reward stupid baserunning?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Think about this. How many times have we seen one runner haul *** around 1B on a ball down the LF line, but R1 doesn't move because s/he can see it is obviously going foul. Everyone knows it's going to be foul, even the softball mom in the concession stand. BUT, because the batter just passed R1, you are going to call the runner out for just doing what s/he is supposed to do since the ball was still in flight at the time of the passing?

I'm not.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Think about this. How many times have we seen one runner haul *** around 1B on a ball down the LF line, but R1 doesn't move because s/he can see it is obviously going foul. Everyone knows it's going to be foul, even the softball mom in the concession stand. BUT, because the batter just passed R1, you are going to call the runner out for just doing what s/he is supposed to do since the ball was still in flight at the time of the passing?

I'm not.

Since an overwhelming majority of our games in MN are 1 man, I probably won't see R2 pass R1 because I am looking for catch/no catch and fair/foul and R1 tagging up and possibly a dead ball line.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

Since an overwhelming majority of our games in MN are 1 man, I probably won't see R2 pass R1 because I am looking for catch/no catch and fair/foul and R1 tagging up and possibly a dead ball line.

Yep, amazing how watching the ball may keep you out of trouble