Balk/Illegal Pitch???

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by mcrowder

What's the beef?

Ed doesn't like ASA. He doesn't like the fact that ASA considers the rule book as an umpire/team registration benefit.

If I remember correctly, he was also part of a group who intended to sue ASA this season concerning an equipment issue.

JMHO,

[EdJW]

What I don't like is an organization that has the brass ones to call itself the National Governing body of softball in the US that continues to refuse to make its rules available to the public.

And what I don't like in NJ is the simple fact that the organization is nothing but an insurance collection agency as far a girls fastpitch is concerned. Anyone in America can go onto the national ASA website right now, click on the New Jersey link, and see that there is no information whatsoever regarding current happenings in the fastpitch world.

The big question, why does Mikey seem to support the current terrible state of ASA softball in NJ?

To MCCrowder, my issue is that an umpire said PONY softball rules are derived from baseball. Despite the fact that the rules seem to be Fed softball rules with some leaning to ASA rules. Where did the Atlanta ump come up with the assertion that PONY softball rules are cloned from baseball?

[azbigdawg]

It sounds like someone needs to address the local New Jersey problem and settle down. I saw NO slap in the face towards any other organization in the original post. I have NO issue with ASA not putting the rules online. If you want a copy of the rules.............register.... If you want to make New Jersey ASA better.......participate...... if not......... ( I cant type that...my Momma would be PISSED). As Cheesy (and pointless) as "the national governing body of softball" sounds....they ARE the leading organization in most areas....Ill say it again...If New Jersey isnt the way you like it..... start to work changing it.

[bkbjones]

Ed,
I will echo what Darrell said, and steal a quote from someone else.

You can lead, follow or get out of the way. If you don't like the way things are, I suggest you become a leader. What have YOU done to make things better, what are you doing now to make things better, and what will you do in the future?

If you have a question about ASA being the National Governing Body of Softball, I suggest you do a little research to find out why that is instead of coming in here half-cocked with some cockamamie agenda that, in my humble opinion, is horribly invalid.

Why others publicly publish their rules I have no idea, but it's a stupid idea. Anyone who pays their dues can get a rule book. Teams get rule books, leagues get rule books, umpires get rule books - all they have to do is register.

Not all the money goes for insurance, but thank goodness some does. A few years ago in a state south of here, there was a very tragic accident. A life was lost, there were bills to pay. The folks at Bollinger, in my humble opinion, went above and beyond. And if you think LL and PONY don't feed at the insurance trough, I have some other news for ya...

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

Why others publicly publish their rules I have no idea, but it's a stupid idea. Anyone who pays their dues can get a rule book. Teams get rule books, leagues get rule books, umpires get rule books - all they have to do is register.

Your question is backwards. The question should be, "Why do some organizations not publish their rules (on the internet)?"

To be fair to ASA, they are joined by NFHS in this proprietary approach to their rules.

Why should the rules only be available to umpires and registered teams? What's the logic in that?

Why can't the average person (i.e. fan) have access to those rules?

Face it - it's a money making thing!

Umpires frequently complain about how ignorant fans are of their rulings. I think anybody should be able to look up (and educate themselves) as to what "obstruction" is, how it is determined, and what the penalties for the infraction are. What's the big deal?

What's the harm in making the rules open to the general public?

They'll take your money at the gate but not extend you the right to fully understand the game you're paying for.

The game is not all about the players, coaches, and umpires.

Sporting events are public exhibitions!

Heck, if you like a certain song you can easily find the lyrics to that song on the internet. You may have to PAY to hear the song, but the lyrics are FREE. Why would a sporting event be any different?

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[AtlUmpSteve]

Why not freely publish the rules? Because that isn't their business model. You can easily find things on the internet that are public domain; items which are propietary and copywrited remain the property of the owner, who should have the right to decide how to operate the business.

It is obviously the opinion of the ASA National Council that a significant number of team registrations would disappear if the rulebook wasn't connected with the team registration. Even more leagues than now (and we know they exist) would say they play "ASA rules" but not bother to register the teams. And, if the rules were freely available, why should they? There is always the market force to save the registration fees; and if umpires will work unregistered and unsanctioned games for the same fee, and if their insurance situation is unaffected, to many organizations, the only reason to pay registration fees is to get the rulebooks (and scorebooks).

If it was possible to make the rules publicly viewable, but impossible to print your own free copy, I might agree. But, just like everyone believes they know the ingredients to the Big Mac "special sauce", that doesn't mean McDonalds should be required to publish it.

[Dakota]

This issue of giving away the published rules on the internet is juvenile whining.

The "general public" can get an ASA rule book in numerous ways:

1) Do a google search for illicit copies posted (they exist)
2) Ask your team's coach for his copy of last year's book and download the rule changes
3) Register with ASA
4) Contact your state / association UIC. Many will sell you a copy.
5) Find a copy for sale on ebay
6) Find a copy for sale in used book stores

Or, just whine about it.

[bkbjones]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

Your question is backwards. The question should be, "Why do some organizations not publish their rules (on the internet)?"

To be fair to ASA, they are joined by NFHS in this proprietary approach to their rules.

Why should the rules only be available to umpires and registered teams? What's the logic in that?

Why can't the average person (i.e. fan) have access to those rules?

Face it - it's a money making thing!

Umpires frequently complain about how ignorant fans are of their rulings. I think anybody should be able to look up (and educate themselves) as to what "obstruction" is, how it is determined, and what the penalties for the infraction are. What's the big deal?

What's the harm in making the rules open to the general public?

They'll take your money at the gate but not extend you the right to fully understand the game you're paying for.

The game is not all about the players, coaches, and umpires.

Sporting events are public exhibitions!

Heck, if you like a certain song you can easily find the lyrics to that song on the internet. You may have to PAY to hear the song, but the lyrics are FREE. Why would a sporting event be any different?

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

1. Don't make it personal, and don't should on me either. It's my question and I'll ask it how I please. Thank you.

2. Song lyrics are not free. They are copyrighted proprietary material. Are they available out there? Yep. But they're not free unless they are in the public domain.

3. Sporting events are not necessarily public exhibitions.

[David Emerling]

Originally Posted by bkbjones

Don't make it personal, and don't should on me either. It's my question and I'll ask it how I please. Thank you.

It only sounds like you're taking it personal. Did I flame you in some way that I'm not aware of? ... Unless, you happen to be one of those people who thinks it's a personal affront whenever anybody disagrees with them.

Teams don't register with ASA just to get the rulebook. C'mon! Who believes that? They register with ASA so they can play in ASA tournaments. And teams play in ASA tournaments mostly based on geography.

If a certain community had only USSSA and NSA tournaments, then the local teams would all likely play in those tournaments. They wouldn't say, "Even though we're not going to play any ASA tournaments, let's register just to get the rulebook!"

Most coaches can't even find their rulebook. ASA sends it to them and it ends up at the bottom of their sock drawer, or, it gets tattered to shreds at the bottom of the equipment bag. (Have you ever noticed how easily the pages fall out of an ASA rulebook?)

* * *

Also, just because something is copyrighted does not necessarily prohibit the owner from making it available online to the public. If you own something you have the right to disseminate it in any manner you find appropriate. If that means making it available on the internet - so be it. MLB does it. USSSA does it. NSA does it. AFA does it. Countless other organizations do it. I'm quite certain MLB owns the rights to their rules.

I'm not arguing that ASA doesn't have the right to make their rules unavailable online; I'm only questioning, "Why?"

If it's about money, I think that is a horrible reason.

And, if the ASA "thinks" that teams will only register to get a rulebook, then that comes very close to extortion.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EdJW

What I don't like is an organization that has the brass ones to call itself the National Governing body of softball in the US that continues to refuse to make its rules available to the public.

ASA doesn't "call" itself the NGB, the USOC and congress do that in accordance with U.S. Code 2205

http://uscode.house.gov/download/pls/36C2205.txt

And what I don't like in NJ is the simple fact that the organization is nothing but an insurance collection agency as far a girls fastpitch is concerned. Anyone in America can go onto the national ASA website right now, click on the New Jersey link, and see that there is no information whatsoever regarding current happenings in the fastpitch world.

That is true with many states and metros. Just because they don't submit their schedule to the national office doesn't mean nothing is happening. I know plenty of umpires in NJ that work every weekend, so something is going on.

The big question, why does Mikey seem to support the current terrible state of ASA softball in NJ?

I don't worry about NJ, I have enough to deal with in DE. See, your problem is you have never taken the time to find out how the ASA works, hence ignorance drives your comments.

To MCCrowder, my issue is that an umpire said PONY softball rules are derived from baseball. Despite the fact that the rules seem to be Fed softball rules with some leaning to ASA rules. Where did the Atlanta ump come up with the assertion that PONY softball rules are cloned from baseball?

Maybe because PONY is a baseball-driven organization like LL unlike ASA and other organizations which are softball-driven organizations.

BTW, I believe PONY's insurance program runs through the same NJ-based company that ASA's does.

Like I said folks, Ed doesn't like ASA. Still waiting to hear how that lawsuit is going.