Does the walk in run always score?

[WestMichBlue]

Bases loaded, tie score, bottom of 7th, two outs. Batter is walked.

The rulebooks say that a run counts if it is scored before the 3rd out (with the obvious exceptions).

The assumption is that R1 is awarded home instantly and the game is over when all runners touch the next base. But I cannot find any rules that would justify that interpretation.

The question is: "can something happen that becomes the third out prior to R1 reaching home and thus nulify the winning run?"

Would it make a difference if this happened in the 3rd inning? Suppose R2 runs past 3rd base and is picked off by F2 before R1 touched home? Does the run count - and the inning end.

Rule reference or interpretation, please.

WMB

[mcrowder]

There's a reason the books says the run must be scored before the 3rd out. The sitch you describe is exactly what comes to mind that might not score the run.

Others mostly include a runner NOT touching his awarded base, or being DQ'd (say the batter that drew the walk had BOO).

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
Bases loaded, tie score, bottom of 7th, two outs. Batter is walked.

The rulebooks say that a run counts if it is scored before the 3rd out (with the obvious exceptions).

The assumption is that R1 is awarded home instantly and the game is over when all runners touch the next base. But I cannot find any rules that would justify that interpretation.

Try ASA:

8.1.C, 8.7.G and 5.5.B

[jxt127]

In baseball as long as R3 touches home and the BR touches 1st base the run would score even if another runner is put out (e.g. overrunning his base and being tagged out) before R3 touches home (J/R).

In the absence of a different official ruling or case play I'd score the run.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
The assumption is that R1 is awarded home instantly and the game is over when all runners touch the next base. But I cannot find any rules that would justify that interpretation.

That may be a common assumption, and one that is true 99% of the time, but it is not absolutely true.

Runners who are awarded bases must still run the bases legally (e.g. discussion on the NFHS board regarding a running lane violation in this same situation) and in the case of a BOB, the ball remains live (fastpitch).

ASA Rule 5-3-A (Regulation Game) says, in part,

A full seven innings need not be played if the team second at bat scores more runs in six and one-half innings and/or before the third out in the last of the seventh inning, or the run ahead rule is applied.

ASA Rule 5-5-B and C gives various situations in which the run will NOT score, including (5-5-B-2)

A runner being put out by tag or live ball appeal play prior to the lead runner touching home plate

So, in your scenario of R2 rounding 3rd and being tagged out before R1 touches home, that is out #3 before the lead runner touches home, so no run scores.

[rhsc]

In the original scenerio, how lenient would you be about high 5s down the base-line before the run scores?

[WestMichBlue]

"Runners who are awarded bases must still run the bases legally"

That is a given, Dakota. My original statement is that all runners touch the next base.

The question applies when all runners advance to the next base at different speeds. If it is the 7th inning, they simply touch and base and leave (to join the celebration). If R1 is in the midst of the celebration and yet a couple feet from home - and if another runner is tagged off the base - do you not allow the run?

WMB

[Dakota]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
If R1 is in the midst of the celebration and yet a couple feet from home - and if another runner is tagged off the base - do you not allow the run?

Never had it happen, but, no, the rules don't support it. I thought I answered that.

The comment about running legally was just to dispense with that issue; the rest of the post actually was the answer to your question.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by jxt127
In baseball as long as R3 touches home and the BR touches 1st base the run would score even if another runner is put out (e.g. overrunning his base and being tagged out) before R3 touches home (J/R).

In the absence of a different official ruling or case play I'd score the run.

We are talking softball here. Obviously a different game with different rules.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by rhsc
In the original scenerio, how lenient would you be about high 5s down the base-line before the run scores?

Speaking ASA.

There is no rule forbiding it.

[greymule]

In baseball as long as R3 touches home and the BR touches 1st base the run would score even if another runner is put out (e.g. overrunning his base and being tagged out) before R3 touches home (J/R).

True, but be careful. There's a difference in OBR depending on whether the third out is made by a runner who is put out (run scores) or declared out, such as for passing a runner (run does not score). (I have no idea how Fed rules.)

See baseball board Feb 27 thread entitled "Dead ball passing runners, runs scoring."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
"Runners who are awarded bases must still run the bases legally"

That is a given, Dakota. My original statement is that all runners touch the next base.

The question applies when all runners advance to the next base at different speeds. If it is the 7th inning, they simply touch and base and leave (to join the celebration). If R1 is in the midst of the celebration and yet a couple feet from home - and if another runner is tagged off the base - do you not allow the run?

WMB

Now you are going to have to define the game you are playing.

[MA Softball Ump]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
Bases loaded, tie score, bottom of 7th, two outs. Batter is walked.

The rulebooks say that a run counts if it is scored before the 3rd out (with the obvious exceptions).

The assumption is that R1 is awarded home instantly and the game is over when all runners touch the next base. But I cannot find any rules that would justify that interpretation.... WMB

WMB -

Try Rule 8-5-A. [page 108] None of the runners are liable to be put out absent misconduct. All runners in this sitch are "entitled to advance without liability to be put out..."

Therefore it would only be by USC or some such that would negate the run.

TJ

[rhsc]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA.

There is no rule forbiding it.

Seems like I remember something about assistance(like a base coach). Thats why I was asking about lenience. We discussed it at our meeting, but it was left to dicretion.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by MA Softball Ump
Try Rule 8-5-A. [page 108] None of the runners are liable to be put out absent misconduct. All runners in this sitch are "entitled to advance without liability to be put out..."

Therefore it would only be by USC or some such that would negate the run.

But, no runner is being put out while advancing to the awarded base. The Q is about scoring the run if another runner is put out. Note this in the rule you cite,

The ball remains in play ... Any runner affected is entitled to one base and may advance farther at their own risk if the ball is in play

The ball is in play. R2 advances farther. R2 is at risk. R2 is tagged out for the third out. R1 has not yet crossed home.

Does the run score anyway?