fly ball interference

[Altor]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Allows 4th out appeals, but ONLY against a runner who has scored a run.

Yes, I understood that. But, my question was about the rule that "does not allow a fourth out unless it is an appeal on a runner who has scored."

Sometimes, when you have rules-lawyers reading rule books and trying to apply a loophole or gotcha to the rule as written instead of the obvious spirit and intent, you have to turn that against them. If the rule specifies that appeals for fourth outs are not allowed (with the exception), then you can make the argument that this is not an appeal. The batter is out by rule and you simply have a fourth out that inning.

IRISHMAFIA says this is not the case and the rule apparently forbids all fourth outs (with the exception).

[Big Slick]

Originally Posted by Altor

(snip)
Sometimes, when you have rules-lawyers reading rule books and trying to apply a loophole or gotcha to the rule as written instead of the obvious spirit and intent, you have to turn that against them. If the rule specifies that appeals for fourth outs are not allowed (with the exception), then you can make the argument that this is not an appeal. The batter is out by rule and you simply have a fourth out that inning.

IRISHMAFIA says this is not the case and the rule apparently forbids all fourth outs (with the exception).

You do not have a fourth out, by the rule that Mike quoted. But it doesn't matter.

In USA Softball, it doesn't matter how many outs, the interference on a batted ball ends the at bat. Period. End of story. Don't complicate this rule.

Look at the other rule codes for comparison:
Over fair territory:
NCAA: rule is the same as USA - runner and batter are out
NFHS: runner is out, batter is put on first base
Bottom line: in all cases, the batter's time at bat has finished when the interference happens on a ball over fair territory.

Over foul territory:
NCAA and NFHS: runner is out and a foul ball (strike) is called on the batter. Batter remains at bat. If the third out of inning, current batter would lead off.
USA: batter and runner are out. This is different than the other two codes, however, the same logic applies as in a fair ball - the batter has completed their time at bat.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

In USA Softball, it doesn't matter how many outs, the interference on a batted ball ends the at bat. Period. End of story. Don't complicate this rule.

*sigh* I was simply trying to provide an alternative answer to somebody who wants to complicate the rule. You can say this all you want, but some people simply will complicate it without a case play or some other clarification. The OP is asking for an explanation to give to those people.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Altor

*sigh* I was simply trying to provide an alternative answer to somebody who wants to complicate the rule. You can say this all you want, but some people simply will complicate it without a case play or some other clarification. The OP is asking for an explanation to give to those people.

What part do you think isn't clear?

[Altor]

I don't think anything is unclear. Obviously some people do or the OP would have never been posted.

If I had to guess, I would say it's trying to reconcile the fact that one rule says the runner and batter are both out and another rule says there cannot be a fourth out (with the exception).

Hell, after re-reading the thread...you are the one that pointed it out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Altor

I don't think anything is unclear. Obviously some people do or the OP would have never been posted.

If I had to guess, I would say it's trying to reconcile the fact that one rule says the runner and batter are both out and another rule says there cannot be a fourth out (with the exception).

Hell, after re-reading the thread...you are the one that pointed it out.

From what I understand, the discussion occurred among a group of umpires who worked both NFHS & USA. Some had a difficult time separating the two and insisted you couldn't get two outs. What is sad is that this is not a new rule and there were umpires who did not know this. Once the rule was read along with the associated RS, everyone was hopefully on the same page.

[CecilOne]

Not asking for clarity or explanation.

As I said, just looking for documented agreement from on high;

only about the at-bat being over and that player not batting the next inning.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Big Slick

In USA Softball, it doesn't matter how many outs, the interference on a batted ball ends the at bat. Period. End of story. Don't complicate this rule.

IOW, either when the batter is out or when the batter is awarded first base, the at bat is over.