Tangent to passing a runner topic.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

And my final question was:

"Does "looks toward 2nd" count as a play or fake play, before the throw?"

Let's assume arm not raised.

Well, I guess that depends on your judgment.

Per the USA Softball rule supplement, "any act by the pitcher that, in the umpire's judgment, causes the runner to react is considered making a play." For me, a simple look at the runner isn't enough of an act. But if that look is accompanied by something else, like a quick shoulder turn, that causes the runner to hesitate or turn back, I would say that's enough to turn off the LBR switch.

(Edited to add) Just saw Steve's response after I posted mine. I agree with his assessment.

[CecilOne]

Both,

Just what I hoped you would say.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Now the question begs to be asked is what type of reaction would you expect from a runner in contact with a base when the pitcher appears to be making a play? It makes no sense, but then again there are a few things that happen in the youth game that doesn't make sense.

Seems to me, if they truly believed the pitcher was going to attempt a play, the last move would be to move off the base.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Now the question begs to be asked is what type of reaction would you expect from a runner in contact with a base when the pitcher appears to be making a play? It makes no sense, but then again there are a few things that happen in the youth game that doesn't make sense.

Seems to me, if they truly believed the pitcher was going to attempt a play, the last move would be to move off the base.

What about the other runner(s)?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

What about the other runner(s)?

And why would they react if the pitcher wasn't making a play on them? They jump off their base and dance around threatening to advance? Isn't that what the LBR was meant to eliminate?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And why would they react if the pitcher wasn't making a play on them?

Pitcher looks toward runner at 2nd, and runner at 3rd (or base coach) reacts as if LBR off.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Pitcher looks toward runner at 2nd, and runner at 3rd (or base coach) reacts as if LBR off.

And if the pitcher than turns and reacts toward that runner, the one at 2B jumps off the base.

Again, isn't that the monkey business that was meant to be stopped by the LBR?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Again, isn't that the monkey business that was meant to be stopped by the LBR?

Of course, but there is the provision that the pitcher making or faking a play negates that purpose of calling the runner out, with the "pitcher possession/control".

My original question in the hypothetical OP is whether the pitcher looking at the runner is a "play" or whether there has to be some arm or other body movement. The "But pitcher picks up ball and looks toward 2nd." sentence in the prior topic is what triggered my post.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

The "But pitcher picks up ball and looks toward 2nd." sentence in the prior topic is what triggered my post.

Many years ago while playing service ball (which came under ASA purview) I seem to recall the look back rule actually requiring the pitcher to look the runner(s) back.

At that time I was an outfielder on the base team and just starting out pitching on my intramural team. So I was clearly not aware of many of the pitching protocols. I learned from game experience. Didn't have a rule book, videos hadn't been invented yet, so anything I could pick up came from player friendly umpires and teammates.