Tangent to passing a runner topic.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

The pitcher making a play, or some action that incites a response from the runners does cancel the lookback rule for the moment, it doesnt cancel it permanently for that play. As soon as the pitcher goes back to just simply holding the ball in the circle the lookback rule reactivates.

Yes, but the pitcher isn't going to do that while the play is still on going.

[RKBUmp]

Originally Posted by youngump

Yes, but the pitcher isn't going to do that while the play is still on going.

Pitchers fake throws all the time, especially at younger levels. The lookback is off when they fake the throw, as soon as they stop and are no longer feinting a motion to make a play the lookback rule is back in effect.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Pitchers fake throws all the time, especially at younger levels. The lookback is off when they fake the throw, as soon as they stop and are no longer feinting a motion to make a play the lookback rule is back in effect.

Agreed. Even if F1 isn't pumping fake throws, if that ball is held in a throwing position, the LBR isn't on.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Agreed. Even if F1 isn't pumping fake throws, if that ball is held in a throwing position, the LBR isn't on.

Unless something has changed recently, raising the arm to a throwing position is considered a play by the pitcher for the purpose of the LBR.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Unless something has changed recently, raising the arm to a throwing position is considered a play by the pitcher for the purpose of the LBR.

That was the point I was making. "Agreed" was a broad term: I agree that pitchers make fake throws all the time, especially at lower/younger levels.

[CecilOne]

And my final question was:

"Does "looks toward 2nd" count as a play or fake play, before the throw?"

Let's assume arm not raised.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

And my final question was:

"Does "looks toward 2nd" count as a play or fake play, before the throw?"

Let's assume arm not raised.

HTBT call. A casual look in that direction, no; a quick head jerk around, yes.

The simplest way to determine what counts is to ask yourself if it is remotely reasonable for a runner to react as if threatened. If it is reasonable to react, then it isn't a LBR violation for the runner to react; if there is no reason to consider the runner in jeopardy of a play (fake play), then it isn't a play (fake play).

Players make partial or borderline moves for the sole purpose of getting the runner to react; that's what coaches teach. Look at the intent of the motion/non-motion, and judge accordingly. It's really that simple. And when/if a coach challenges that decision, you respond with "IN MY JUDGMENT".

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

And my final question was:

"Does "looks toward 2nd" count as a play or fake play, before the throw?"

Let's assume arm not raised.

Well, I guess that depends on your judgment.

Per the USA Softball rule supplement, "any act by the pitcher that, in the umpire's judgment, causes the runner to react is considered making a play." For me, a simple look at the runner isn't enough of an act. But if that look is accompanied by something else, like a quick shoulder turn, that causes the runner to hesitate or turn back, I would say that's enough to turn off the LBR switch.

(Edited to add) Just saw Steve's response after I posted mine. I agree with his assessment.