verbalize a fly ball out?

[Tru_in_Blu]

During a recent tournament I compiled some inputs for a newer umpire that was working with us. The tournament was a USA sanctioned event.

After composing the tips, I looked up references in the USA Umpire Manual.

Now I have a question about the mechanic for the PU to verbalize the out on a fly ball to the outfield. I also checked my NFHS Umpire Manual to see what they had.

The NFHS covers it under Movement from the Plate in item 4.

“On fly balls to the outfield not near the foul line, move to obtain a good angle to the catch versus straight at the fielder catching the ball. If the ball is caught, give an out signal and a verbal ‘out’ call.”

The USA version is similar, on fly balls not near the foul line: B.1.d.2)

“If the ball is fair and not caught, no signal is needed. No verbal call is given. If the ball is caught, give an out signal.”

There are multiple passages within this section that are greyed out, indicating that these were updates this year.

I have always verbalized (and signaled) even the most can-of-cornish catches. If I have a plate partner who doesn’t verbalize, I’ve always asked that they do.

Is this a change for USA or was something inadvertently omitted?

Four or five years ago, I asked a plate partner why he wasn’t verbalizing fly ball outs. He said he worked “college ball” and the philosophy was no verbal call so as not to (further) embarrass a girl who made an out. He also gave a very weak little fist turn over near his belt. My BS antennae started twitching, but since I don’t work “college ball” I couldn’t refute the statement.

Anyhoos… Comments?

[teebob21]

My (confusing) philosophy, based on what I have been taught at all levels:

1): Every call is the same: Verbalize and signal, except on pitches called balls (no signal).

2): Every call is different: Some need selling. Others do not. Some, like infield line drives, need no selling but deserve a strong vocal call because the speed of the game is dependent on your call.

Your BS detector is in fine working condition, as far as I can tell.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by teebob21

My (confusing) philosophy:

1): Every call is the same: Verbalize and signal, except on pitches called balls (no signal).

Yeah, that was one of the comments I noted for this guy. Every pitch out of the strike zone needed a location flourish. He looked like an orchestra conductor!

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Yeah, that was one of the comments I noted for this guy. Every pitch out of the strike zone needed a location flourish. He looked like an orchestra conductor!

I smell a self-taught baseball guy.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

During a recent tournament I compiled some inputs for a newer umpire that was working with us. The tournament was a USA sanctioned event.

After composing the tips, I looked up references in the USA Umpire Manual.

Now I have a question about the mechanic for the PU to verbalize the out on a fly ball to the outfield. I also checked my NFHS Umpire Manual to see what they had.

The NFHS covers it under Movement from the Plate in item 4.

“On fly balls to the outfield not near the foul line, move to obtain a good angle to the catch versus straight at the fielder catching the ball. If the ball is caught, give an out signal and a verbal ‘out’ call.”

The USA version is similar, on fly balls not near the foul line: B.1.d.2)

“If the ball is fair and not caught, no signal is needed. No verbal call is given. If the ball is caught, give an out signal.”

There are multiple passages within this section that are greyed out, indicating that these were updates this year.

I have always verbalized (and signaled) even the most can-of-cornish catches. If I have a plate partner who doesn’t verbalize, I’ve always asked that they do.

Is this a change for USA or was something inadvertently omitted?

Four or five years ago, I asked a plate partner why he wasn’t verbalizing fly ball outs. He said he worked “college ball” and the philosophy was no verbal call so as not to (further) embarrass a girl who made an out. He also gave a very weak little fist turn over near his belt. My BS antennae started twitching, but since I don’t work “college ball” I couldn’t refute the statement.

Anyhoos… Comments?

Yeah, fair amount of bullshit there.

I actually prefer a verbal out on all such calls if for no other reason than keeping a routine. Doesn't have to be loud, just be something other than silence.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Yeah, that was one of the comments I noted for this guy. Every pitch out of the strike zone needed a location flourish. He looked like an orchestra conductor!

My question to these guys is:

When you call a strike, do you tell everybody where the pitch was?
STRIKE...on the corner!

I usually get a "why the hell would I do that" look, so I ask them why they feel the need to tell everybody when they call a ball....It just looks like they have to justify their call.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Yeah, that was one of the comments I noted for this guy. Every pitch out of the strike zone needed a location flourish. He looked like an orchestra conductor!

Tell him to just say "I looked all over the strike zone and could not find it."

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by teebob21

My (confusing) philosophy, based on what I have been taught at all levels:

1): Every call is the same: Verbalize and signal, except on pitches called balls (no signal).

2): Every call is different: Some need selling. Others do not. Some, like infield line drives, need no selling but deserve a strong vocal call because the speed of the game is dependent on your call.

Your BS detector is in fine working condition, as far as I can tell.

Agree with the bolded.

Where the play is does not matter, it is the "closeness" and the situation.
Even some base runner calls do not need a verbal.

As to infield line drives, the tough ones get a long & loud verbal to reward the fielder and show the batter they were robbed.

However, I don't get the speed of the game factor.

[bigdogtx]

If I am trying to watch runners on 1 and 2, I appreciate a loud call for the tag up purposes

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by bigdogtx

If I am trying to watch runners on 1 and 2, I appreciate a loud call for the tag up purposes

That verbal should not be your indicator of a runner leaving the base properly or not, especially since an out being record has no bearing on when a runner may leave the base to advance on a caught fly ball.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

That verbal should not be your indicator of a runner leaving the base properly or not, especially since an out being record has no bearing on when a runner may leave the base to advance on a caught fly ball.

Originally Posted by CecilOne

However, I don't get the speed of the game factor.

I give a strong vocal out for a caught infield line drive in order to be a better partner for my crew. It's not supposed to be an indicator of the timing of the catch. If the play is going away from his starting position, or he's straight-lined on the catch (which is fine because he doesn't have the catch/no-catch call here), or there may be concern about a trap, a loud vocal call allows him to know with certainty what the game situation is, even with non-optimal positioning. From there, he can move or read the throw to make a proper call on a snap-throw for the live-ball appeal. Without the vocal, that snap throw can be too quick for him to read the play, watch me signal, and then correctly rule on the secondary play.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by teebob21

I give a strong vocal out for a caught infield line drive in order to be a better partner for my crew. It's not supposed to be an indicator of the timing of the catch. If the play is going away from his starting position, or he's straight-lined on the catch (which is fine because he doesn't have the catch/no-catch call here), or there may be concern about a trap, a loud vocal call allows him to know with certainty what the game situation is, even with non-optimal positioning. From there, he can move or read the throw to make a proper call on a snap-throw for the live-ball appeal. Without the vocal, that snap throw can be too quick for him to read the play, watch me signal, and then correctly rule on the secondary play.

For the same reasons, I will give a loud verbal "NO!" on a trapped ball followed by a safe signal. That might not be exactly by the book either, but I think runners and partners need to know as soon as possible.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

For the same reasons, I will give a loud verbal "NO!" on a trapped ball followed by a safe signal. That might not be exactly by the book either, but I think runners and partners need to know as soon as possible.

Over the years I have found that just as many hear "out" as hear "no"

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Over the years I have found that just as many hear "out" as hear "no"

So you also give a verbal "NO!"? I guess I've been more fortunate in that regard. I don't really recall ever having a problem with that.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

For the same reasons, I will give a loud verbal "NO!" on a trapped ball followed by a safe signal. That might not be exactly by the book either, but I think runners and partners need to know as soon as possible.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Over the years I have found that just as many hear "out" as hear "no"

I do the same thing. NO for a not-out, YES for an out. Pulled foot? "NO!", followed by safe signal. High throw and the foot stayed on? "YES!" + point, plus out signal to reflect the closeness of the play.

During my formative years, ASA (now USA) had a big push towards single-syllable vocalizations. Example on a check swing: Mask off, point to partner, and "SWING?" I still haven't gotten that entirely out of my system.

I yell NO on a trap, too. I know the safe signal on a no-catch is not the USA/ASA mechanic, but dang is it useful in the codes that allow it. NO plus a safe signal is evident to everyone, no matter what level of hearing impairment.