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Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 06:56pm
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Inbounds Ball-ball-ball shouting by defender

Just got instruction from the head of our referee organization to do nothing when defenders are screaming BALL BALL BALL as they stand in front of the inbounding opposing player. I believe this behaviour has no part in the game. I personally blow the whistle, tell the defender that we 'don't do that here', at which point they always stop the nonsense, and we carry on. I have never called a technical for this behaviour, but I consider it an option.

I've been told that this is not in the rule book and therefore we should not intervene. I suggest that it should be handled like any other unwritten unsportsmanlike behaviour. A comparison would be screaming at a player about to try a layup.

Do any other associations have a policy regarding the handling of inbounds screaming? Allow it, or warn and penalize ?
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Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 07:08pm
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Why would we get involved in this anyway. It is apart of basketball because it informs the teammates the player with the ball has picked up the ball.

Of course there is a way to do this and not to be directly in the face of another player, but just yelling this is not unsporting and if that is your claim then I think that is a very wrong way of thinking.

Never has anyone suggested to do what you are suggesting in any way other than those officials that do not have much experience or clearly are lower level officials. No veteran or accomplished official would ever make such a suggestion around here.

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Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 07:09pm
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I would never call this (warning, T, or anything else). Nothing obscene here (so not unsporting in that sense) and there's nothing in the rules about disconcerting a thrower-in or a layupper or really anything else other than a free-throw shooter. "Ball, ball, ball," "dead, dead, dead," "watch the cutter," etc., are all perfectly valid utterances made on a basketball court. Just let 'em play.
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Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 07:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flimflam View Post

I suggest that it should be handled like any other unwritten unsportsmanlike behaviour. A comparison would be screaming at a player about to try a layup.
The way most officials handle this situation is the same as most handle your other situation...by doing nothing.

I would suggest following the instruction you've been given.
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Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 08:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flimflam View Post
I believe
While I respect your beliefs, they are of no importance in officiating.

The play you describe is legal and you need to set your beliefs (on this play) aside or not officiate.
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Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 09:03pm
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Two points...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
While I respect your beliefs, they are of no importance in officiating.

The play you describe is legal and you need to set your beliefs (on this play) aside or not officiate.
1 - Welcome to the forum, Flimflam.

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2 - Always listen to Bob!
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Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 10:40pm
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I completely agree with the majority here--this is legal and should be ignored by the official.

However, interesting that if that player were to be shouting 1, 2, 3, instead of ball, ball, ball ... the majority on this forum (not me) seem to suddenly have a different opinion.
https://forum.officiating.com/basket...-annoying.html
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Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 10:45pm
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The difference is that one of them can be seen as making disparaging comments about the officiating, and the other is just someone saying "ball, ball, ball".
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Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 11:02pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HokiePaul View Post
I completely agree with the majority here--this is legal and should be ignored by the official.

However, interesting that if that player were to be shouting 1, 2, 3, instead of ball, ball, ball ... the majority on this forum (not me) seem to suddenly have a different opinion.
https://forum.officiating.com/basket...-annoying.html
Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jTheUmp View Post
The difference is that one of them can be seen as making disparaging comments about the officiating, and the other is just someone saying "ball, ball, ball".
The times that I have seen this, the defender is in no way making disparaging comments about the officiating, but rather trying to get into the head of the opponent, similar to the bench or fans counting down the end of the quarter when there is still 15 seconds left. Would you still disallow it if you can confirm, with certainty, that it isn't directed at us?
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Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 11:14pm
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flimflam View Post
I believe this behaviour has no part in the game. I have never called a technical for this behaviour, but I consider it an option.
I'm guessing that, based on the way you spell "behavior", you work under FIBA rules. True?
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Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 11:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frezer11 View Post
The times that I have seen this, the defender is in no way making disparaging comments about the officiating, but rather trying to get into the head of the opponent, similar to the bench or fans counting down the end of the quarter when there is still 15 seconds left. Would you still disallow it if you can confirm, with certainty, that it isn't directed at us?
I would only disallow it if I could confirm, with certainty, that it is directed at us. I'm looking for a reason not to make a call in this situation, and I won't unless I am convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that the action is unsporting in nature.
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Old Sun Jan 18, 2015, 11:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frezer11 View Post
Funny, I was thinking the exact same thing.

The times that I have seen this, the defender is in no way making disparaging comments about the officiating, but rather trying to get into the head of the opponent, similar to the bench or fans counting down the end of the quarter when there is still 15 seconds left. Would you still disallow it if you can confirm, with certainty, that it isn't directed at us?
The differences between yelling "ball, ball, ball" and shouting 1, 2, 3 are:

1) The latter is sometimes directed at the officials to suggest that the official's count is not fast enough and to speed it up in their favor. This is trying to gain an advantage not intended by rule and can also distract the official from doing our job and administering the rules.

2) I will not allow players to try to officiate. Audibly counting a violation is mimicking and manipulating an officials visual count. I will not allow players in my game to continue other attempts at audible officiating either. Such as continually yelling "foul, travel, 3 seconds, etc.

3) As for trying to get into the head of other players. Doing so verbally is not something that players get a lot of rope with at the NFHS and NCAA level. And that goes for benches too. If players want to focus on verbal attempts to get in their opponents heads they should be in the stands with the rest of the fans. To me yelling "ball, ball, ball" is something that players are coached to do any time the ball is "dead" in a players hands to communicate to teamates. Even on an inbound where there may be some effort to "get in a players" head, its not something that's disrupts the game or mimics officiating so its not an issue.

Last edited by VaTerp; Sun Jan 18, 2015 at 11:51pm.
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Old Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:20am
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If the kid guarding the inbounder is yelling "BALL BALL BALL", just turn to him and say, "Yes, it is a ball. You're very observant."
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Old Mon Jan 19, 2015, 10:58am
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Originally Posted by Lcubed48 View Post
1 - Welcome to the forum, Flimflam.

AND

2 - Always listen to Bob!
This, exactly.
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Old Mon Jan 19, 2015, 03:10pm
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I had this happen one time in a boy's varsity game. Defender deflected the inbound attempt OOB again so we have another inbound attempt a few feet away. Before I could give the ball to the inbounder he looked at me and asked "Did a girl's game break out and someone forget to tell me?" I really had to fight not laughing but the defender kept quiet after the question.
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