Checked swing-D3K

[Mbilica]

Originally Posted by umpjim

So in any BB or SB code that requires you to go, as PU in 3 man, with runner/s on in the various perturbations you go to U? with LHB and U? with RHB. If you are BU in 3 man you tell PU in the briefing to go to whoever is on the wing with any batter because you won't have a ruling or he came come to you but it will be a no? Aside, I think at one point in some 3 man code they always went to the wing even if the inside ump was on the right side. So the debate is ongoing.

One time when I was in 2 man, the PU appealed to me on a checked swing by a left handed batter. I thought he went. When I indicated the swing, the head coach at 3rd had a fit. He had been coaching for a long time and had "never seen such a pioneer call". After the game, the PU apologized to me for looking for help. I was SURE I had a swing. But sure enough, I got a call from my assignor that evening. From then on, I make it a point to cover this in pregame. Unless everyone on the field can tell it was a swing, leave it to the plate umpire unless you are in A and it is a RHB. We can only get the lefties in 3 man. I hold to the same standard in softball. We are just at a disadvantage without an umpire on each corner.

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[MT 73]

Originally Posted by Mbilica

One time when I was in 2 man, the PU appealed to me on a checked swing by a left handed batter. I thought he went. When I indicated the swing, the head coach at 3rd had a fit. He had been coaching for a long time and had "never seen such a pioneer call". After the game, the PU apologized to me for looking for help. I was SURE I had a swing. But sure enough, I got a call from my assignor that evening. From then on, I make it a point to cover this in pregame. Unless everyone on the field can tell it was a swing, leave it to the plate umpire unless you are in A and it is a RHB. We can only get the lefties in 3 man. I hold to the same standard in softball. We are just at a disadvantage without an umpire on each corner.

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That coach should have been ejected and never--NEVER--let a coach cause you to doubt yourself.
( However It sounds as if you yourself felt that you had messed up when in fact you did the proper thing.
That is why these forums are such a valuable resource since none of us know it all and are still works in progress)
To repeat---Unless this was a HS game the PU had no choice but to go to you and you did as you were supposed to do--you called it as you saw it.
Your assignor should have backed you up and told the coach that he is ignorant of a very basic rule.
Then again, there really should be a Tooth Fairy and a Santa Claus.

[Mbilica]

Originally Posted by MT 73

That coach should have been ejected and never--NEVER--let a coach cause you to doubt yourself.
( However It sounds as if you yourself felt that you had messed up when in fact you did the proper thing.
That is why these forums are such a valuable resource since none of us know it all and are still works in progress)
To repeat---Unless this was a HS game the PU had no choice but to go to you and you did as you were supposed to do--you called it as you saw it.
Your assignor should have backed you up and told the coach that he is ignorant of a very basic rule.
Then again, there really should be a Tooth Fairy and a Santa Claus.

I still think I got the call right. I don't doubt it. The way I understand it is in comparison to officiating your area in football. A LH batter is going to be hard to get a checked swing on. Making that call is like fishing in someone else's pond. It better be a whale, not a minnow. So, in essence I need to make that call a BIG call if Im going to call it a swing.

As for never letting a coach make me doubt myself? That is the challenge I think we all face. I do think umpiring for a full season should be a prerequisite for coaching a baseball team...

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[MT 73]

Originally Posted by Mbilica

I still think I got the call right. I don't doubt it. The way I understand it is in comparison to officiating your area in football. A LH batter is going to be hard to get a checked swing on. Making that call is like fishing in someone else's pond. It better be a whale, not a minnow. So, in essence I need to make that call a BIG call if Im going to call it a swing.

As for never letting a coach make me doubt myself? That is the challenge I think we all face. I do think umpiring for a full season should be a prerequisite for coaching a baseball team...

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I was once one of our leagues umpire instructors and evaluators.
When a coach was ejected he had to serve a two day suspension during which he had to umpire the bases with me in a 10U game.
I made sure he has a long, long day.
As to your call--quite frankly I rarely over rule my partner in a checked swing appeal,especially if I am in the C with a RH batter.
Yeah, yeah I know but 32 years in law enforcement taught me to choose my battles wisely.
As to doubting---I became a rule addict because I never wanted to be that umpire who has two coaches yelling two different rule interpretations and not knowing who--or of any of them--are correct.
As to blowing a call--learn from it and let it go but take what any coach says with a grain of salt because 99% of the time he sees what he wants to see.
I wish I could be more of an umpire as my 18 year old son
He could care less what coaches or players think and never doubts himself--or at least he never shows it
Sad to say this will be his last season for awhile because he is getting ready to join the U.S. Marine Corp in October.

[Mbilica]

Originally Posted by MT 73

He could care less what coaches or players think and never doubts himself--or at least he never shows it
Sad to say this will be his last season for awhile because he is getting ready to join the U.S. Marine Corp in October.

Wow, congratulations to him. You must be very proud! I have nothing but admiration and respect for the Marine Corps.

My boys are 16 and 14, and both officiate soccer. They have learned a lot watching me officiate and they don't take any garbage from coaches at all.

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[MT 73]

Originally Posted by Mbilica

Wow, congratulations to him. You must be very proud! I have nothing but admiration and respect for the Marine Corps.

My boys are 16 and 14, and both officiate soccer. They have learned a lot watching me officiate and they don't take any garbage from coaches at all.

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Thank you.
Yes, I am very proud of him.
Sounds as if you are teaching your boys well.
Good job.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Mbilica

One time when I was in 2 man, the PU appealed to me on a checked swing by a left handed batter. I thought he went. When I indicated the swing, the head coach at 3rd had a fit. He had been coaching for a long time and had "never seen such a pioneer call". After the game, the PU apologized to me for looking for help. I was SURE I had a swing. But sure enough, I got a call from my assignor that evening. From then on, I make it a point to cover this in pregame. Unless everyone on the field can tell it was a swing, leave it to the plate umpire unless you are in A and it is a RHB. We can only get the lefties in 3 man. I hold to the same standard in softball. We are just at a disadvantage without an umpire on each corner.

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You haven't answered the ? in 3 man. If someone is inside or outside on the open side does the PU go to him and does he give him what he sees? If the code requires the PU to ask you have to give him something no matter where you are.

[Mbilica]

Originally Posted by umpjim

You haven't answered the ? in 3 man. If someone is inside or outside on the open side does the PU go to him and does he give him what he sees? If the code requires the PU to ask you have to give him something no matter where you are.

What I am saying, is that I don't think you should call it a swing if you are in the middle of the diamond or looking through the back of the batter, unless it is blatantly obvious and the only reason the PU needs help is because he was blocked out for some reason.

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[MT 73]

Originally Posted by Mbilica

What I am saying, is that I don't think you should call it a swing if you are in the middle of the diamond or looking through the back of the batter, unless it is blatantly obvious and the only reason the PU needs help is because he was blocked out for some reason.

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I agree.