Tarp in Live Ball Territory

[AtlUmpSteve]

You never specified a rules set; the "always" is, as has been stated, an NCAA rule, where a tarp on the field in live ball territory a part of the field is a common occurrence, and the ball remains live when it touches that tarp unless the ball becomes lodged or otherwise unplayable. Players can lean on or elevate off the tarp, as long as they do not put a foot on the tarp. If they put a foot on the tarp, it is not a catch by rule.

The primary reason to not draw a dead ball line around the tarp is that the line is 1) unforgiving, and doesn't permit reasonable play when it could be made, 2) generates disagreements about catches vs noncatches based on foot placements, and 3) generates even more issues with "catch and carry" rules.

With numerous repetitions with tarps, as well as other strange field configurations generating varying ground rules, I am personally most comfortable with trying to keep playable balls live whenever possible, as long as the defense isn't disadvantaged, and letting the players play, and the ball bounce as it will, rather than defining unnecessary base awards.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

You never specified a rules set; the "always" is, as has been stated, an NCAA rule, where a tarp on the field in live ball territory a part of the field is a common occurrence, and the ball remains live when it touches that tarp unless the ball becomes lodged or otherwise unplayable. Players can lean on or elevate off the tarp, as long as they do not put a foot on the tarp. If they put a foot on the tarp, it is not a catch by rule.

The primary reason to not draw a dead ball line around the tarp is that the line is 1) unforgiving, and doesn't permit reasonable play when it could be made, 2) generates disagreements about catches vs noncatches based on foot placements, and 3) generates even more issues with "catch and carry" rules.

With numerous repetitions with tarps, as well as other strange field configurations generating varying ground rules, I am personally most comfortable with trying to keep playable balls live whenever possible, as long as the defense isn't disadvantaged, and letting the players play, and the ball bounce as it will, rather than defining unnecessary base awards.

Where is this? I searched the NCAA rules for "tarp" and the word isn't there.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Where is this? I searched the NCAA rules for "tarp" and the word isn't there.

Really? I went to the Softball 2016-2017 Rules index, and it directed me to Rule 2.25 on Page 28.

"If a tarp is stored in the field of play, thrown and batted balls rebounding off the tarp remain in play unless they become lodged in the tarp or its roller. A fielder attempting to catch a fly ball near the tarp may not have either foot on the tarp.

Note: If a fielder steps on the tarp, she will be considered to have entered dead ball territory."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

The primary reason to not draw a dead ball line around the tarp is that the line is 1) unforgiving, and doesn't permit reasonable play when it could be made, 2) generates disagreements about catches vs noncatches based on foot placements, and 3) generates even more issues with "catch and carry" rules.

The reason is laziness or a penny-pinching AD. Maybe even a bit of coach's arrogance.

The game has been played for years with fences and walls off which a ball may carom and remain in play. AND the player was allowed to climb on it, jump on it or stand on it to make a play on a live ball. And if you have a situation where a ball is lodged or become unaccessible, it is ruled like any other dead ball

If you want to resolve any issues in this situation, put the tarp behind a fence or wall. Otherwise, it is just one more BS NCAA rule that is more of a problem than its worth.

[Manny A]

The NCAA book covers it, as Steve quoted the rule. But I don't believe ASA/USA Softball or NFHS has a similar rule. It's up to the umpires and coaches to come up with a ground rule on how to handle a tarp that is in LBT in those games. So reading Rule 5 in the FED book isn't really going to help you.

From what I've heard, the NCAA rule really is an issue of not wanting to damage tarps by players with cleats climbing on them. Let them climb on fences, walls, etc., to make circus catches to their hearts desire. But not the tarps.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

From what I've heard, the NCAA rule really is an issue of not wanting to damage tarps by players with cleats climbing on them. Let them climb on fences, walls, etc., to make circus catches to their hearts desire. But not the tarps.

Then maybe the tarp shouldn't be placed in a position where that can happen.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Our D1 & D2 NFHS Finals were held at a college field which had a tarp rolled up down the left field line.

Prior to the games, our crews were given the ground rules for dealing with the tarp. It was basically what's been described here: leaning against it, having a hand on it was OK, but no jumping on it. Should a ball get lodged behind it, it would be a DB. We had no issues in our games, but it was something that was addressed in advance.

[jmkupka]

That's close to what I stated as how we were instructed at our rules clinic (a foot may be used to steady ones self on the tarp- no standing on it- but that foot must not be in contact with the tarp at the moment of the catch.

How does one "reestablish" ones self, when (before the catch) one's foot is completely in play and one foot steps completely on far side of the line? Does just lifting the foot up (before catching) do it, or does the "bad" foot have to retouch in play?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

How does one "reestablish" ones self, when (before the catch) one's foot is completely in play and one foot steps completely on far side of the line? Does just lifting the foot up (before catching) do it, or does the "bad" foot have to retouch in play?

Well, talking FED, there are two Notes under rule 5-1-1i when dealing with this that, IMO, don't definitively answer your question.

" c. If a fielder has one foot in play and the other foot in the air, she legally may catch, field or throw the ball unless her entire foot contacts the ground in dead- ball territory, at which time the ball becomes dead, no play is allowed, and the penalty is applied.

" d. If a fielder contacts dead-ball territory with any part of the body except the foot, she is considered out of play. No play is allowed, and the penalty is applied. When the fielder completely leaves and then re-establishes herself within liveball territory (both feet in live-ball territory), a catch would be allowed."

So "c" says one foot in LBT, and one foot in the air is okay. But is that only okay if that foot in the air never touched DBT? Or is it also okay if it does touch DBT, and then is brought back over LBT in the air? Seems to me "c" only addresses what happens when the foot that is in the air never touched DBT to begin with.

And "d" says that in order for a fielder to re-establish herself in LBT, she needs to have both feet in LBT. But does that only apply when she completely left LBT initially? Your question involves only one foot leaving LBT and touching DBT, not both feet.

Bottom line: I'm not sure.