ASA Men's C Div. Live Ball Question

[HonoUmp]

I have been an ASA Umpire for more than 20 years and in all my time of playing and umpiring, I have never seen what happened in a game I called over Labor Day weekend. ASA Rules, live ball with stealing allowed. Runner on second base, pitcher throws a pitch which was a strike. (ball still live). Catcher returns ball to pitcher and overthrows pitcher. Instead of running, the runner on second base steps off his base and picks up the ball and throws it back to the pitcher. OK, what is the call? Just a dead ball when touched? Or is the runner out for coming off his base and touching a live ball? Or something else? I don't know the answer and cannot find it addressed at all in the ASA rules book. Help please.

[teebob21]

No one else on base? No possible play? That means no INT. Dead ball - move on with life. Dumb move runner but nothing else.

I don't work SP, I could be 100% wrong here. Like you, I don't see anything specific in the book on this.

[CecilOne]

Any possible play/out on that runner?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by HonoUmp

I have been an ASA Umpire for more than 20 years and in all my time of playing and umpiring, I have never seen what happened in a game I called over Labor Day weekend. ASA Rules, live ball with stealing allowed. Runner on second base, pitcher throws a pitch which was a strike. (ball still live). Catcher returns ball to pitcher and overthrows pitcher. Instead of running, the runner on second base steps off his base and picks up the ball and throws it back to the pitcher. OK, what is the call? Just a dead ball when touched? Or is the runner out for coming off his base and touching a live ball? Or something else? I don't know the answer and cannot find it addressed at all in the ASA rules book. Help please.

So, you cannot find this addressed in the rule book. So the next step is to consider what IS an actual rule.

A runner is out when the runner is tagged with a live ball in possession of a defensive player when off the base. That didn't happen.

A runner is out when the runner interferes (paraphrase here) with a play, defined as an attempt to make an out. That didn't happen.

Nothing in the category of "A Runner is Out When" has occurred. Therefore, one should conclude that the runner is not out.

What does apply? Blocked ball (albeit not exactly in that definition). Dead ball; move on.

[SWFLguy]

Been away from ASA slo-pitch for years now. Never knew about any games where base stealing was allowed. The base runner sure was a "good sport" for not just throwing it into the outfield and scoring.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by SWFLguy

Been away from ASA slo-pitch for years now. Never knew about any games where base stealing was allowed. The base runner sure was a "good sport" for not just throwing it into the outfield and scoring.

"good sport" or ... (knew about any games where base stealing was allowed)

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by SWFLguy

Been away from ASA slo-pitch for years now. Never knew about any games where base stealing was allowed. The base runner sure was a "good sport" for not just throwing it into the outfield and scoring.

Or pull "the ol' hidden ball trick" by tucking it under his jersey.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

What does apply? Blocked ball (albeit not exactly in that definition). Dead ball; move on.

^^^ This

[MD Longhorn]

Answer is above. I'll add this...

A little surprised that an ump of 20 years never saw this happen ... but I suppose it's possible if that ump never enjoyed some low level 10U or even 12U ball. I bet it happens once a year in most leagues at that level.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Answer is above. I'll add this...

A little surprised that an ump of 20 years never saw this happen ... but I suppose it's possible if that ump never enjoyed some low level 10U or even 12U ball. I bet it happens once a year in most leagues at that level.

Hell, I've seen things like this in JV games this past spring. Never assume a player/coach/game participant will do what you expect.

[josephrt1]

Not only have i seen it but it happened to me. Years ago while coaching 10U rec, a ball got past the pitcher. My runner on 2B stepped off the bag, picked up the ball and handed it to the SS. SS took the ball and tagged my girl out. Easy-peasy.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

Not only have i seen it but it happened to me. Years ago while coaching 10U rec, a ball got past the pitcher. My runner on 2B stepped off the bag, picked up the ball and handed it to the SS. SS took the ball and tagged my girl out. Easy-peasy.

Well, that cannot happen, but it just goes to show nice guys finish last.......or is that no good deed goes unpunished?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

Not only have i seen it but it happened to me. Years ago while coaching 10U rec, a ball got past the pitcher. My runner on 2B stepped off the bag, picked up the ball and handed it to the SS. SS took the ball and tagged my girl out. Easy-peasy.

Well ... your girl wasn't out.