ASA - Batter/Runner touches 1st thinks ball is dropped and heads towards dugout

[hohlernr]

This play caused quite the controversy tonight:

Runners on 1st and 2nd, batter hits flyball to centerfield. Centerfielder dives towards the fence and just barely misses the ball. At this point the batter/runner has run though 1st base and thinks the ball is caught and heads towards the dugout.

The batter/runner never leaves the field, but ends up near the 1st base dugout before he realizes what happens. By that time the ball makes it in the infield and first base is touched and the runner is tagged (for good measure). All hell breaks lose after this as the umps have no idea what to call. They eventually agree that since he never made an attempt for second, he's basically free to do what he wants and is safe at first. I vehemently disagreed, but to no avail.

I can't find a clear ruling in the rule book, what was the proper call?

Thanks!

[youngump]

Originally Posted by hohlernr

This play caused quite the controversy tonight:

Runners on 1st and 2nd, batter hits flyball to centerfield. Centerfielder dives towards the fence and just barely misses the ball. At this point the batter/runner has run though 1st base and thinks the ball is caught and heads towards the dugout.

The batter/runner never leaves the field, but ends up near the 1st base dugout before he realizes what happens. By that time the ball makes it in the infield and first base is touched and the runner is tagged (for good measure). All hell breaks lose after this as the umps have no idea what to call. They eventually agree that since he never made an attempt for second, he's basically free to do what he wants and is safe at first. I vehemently disagreed, but to no avail.

I can't find a clear ruling in the rule book, what was the proper call?

Thanks!

It depends a little on how you acted when you vehemently disagreed. If you were reasonable and took no for an answer then no ejection. If you lost it, then you had to go. ;-)
Seriously though, you're asking about how the protest you lodged will be ruled on? (K, that was less than serious but I do hope you protested.)
On the actual serious front the rules require a BR who overruns first to return immediately to the base. It doesn't sound like that's what happened, though immediate is in the judgment of the umpire. Since he didn't return to first he's subject to be called out on appeal which you did.

[teebob21]

The runner is out if he enters the dugout (8-7-U, paraphrased). Did he remain on the playing field?

Was he back on the base when he was tagged? If so, he's obviously not out no matter what happened before the tag (unless, as above, he entered the dugout). If he touched 1B, overran it, and was abandoning his attempt to advance or return directly to the base (8-8-I), he can be tagged out while off the base.

As a follow-up question to the rest of the umpires here: In this situation, if the ball is returned to 1B without a verbal appeal, would you rule on the live-ball appeal? For that matter, is there a live-ball appeal being properly made? (I say no, unless the defense tags the runner.)

Edit to add: I'm sure in the title you mean "runner thinks ball is caught" but we get it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by teebob21

As a follow-up question to the rest of the umpires here: In this situation, if the ball is returned to 1B without a verbal appeal, would you rule on the live-ball appeal? For that matter, is there a live-ball appeal being properly made? (I say no, unless the defense tags the runner.)

This is not an appeal play. The runner must be tagged with a live ball prior to returning to the base safely

[Billyball]

If the batter stays on the field he is safe. Right call

[CecilOne]

If I read the OP correctly, the BR/R did not leave the field; but was tagged by a live ball while off the base and not returning directly. That is an out, if it is treated as an appeal.

We have discussed recognizing such a play as an appeal several times; which is the deciding factor in this case.
I would say it is; if the fielder(s) acted as if they were trying to catch the BR/R in a running violation.
If the fielder just tagged the BR/R haphazardly with no apparent intent; then it's back to a question of what constitutes an appeal.

BTW, the OP is very well done, clear and lacking useless embellishment.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

If I read the OP correctly, the BR/R did not leave the field; but was tagged by a live ball while off the base and not returning directly. That is an out, if it is treated as an appeal.

We have discussed recognizing such a play as an appeal several times; which is the deciding factor in this case.
I would say it is; if the fielder(s) acted as if they were trying to catch the BR/R in a running violation.
If the fielder just tagged the BR/R haphazardly with no apparent intent; then it's back to a question of what constitutes an appeal.

BTW, the OP is very well done, clear and lacking useless embellishment.

Again, NOT an appeal.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Billyball

If the batter stays on the field he is safe. Right call

Except that he was tagged out.

[Umpire@1]

if was off the base when he was tagged, he would be out. Otherwise you have nothing. Play on..