ASA - Batter/Runner touches 1st thinks ball is dropped and heads towards dugout

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by youngump

So I've never quite understood why a BR overrunning first and turning toward second is considered an appeal. (It has to be executed by tagging the runner who would be out anyway.) But under what theory is that an appeal and going off to wander around foul territory is not. Just because that's literally what it says?

I agree which is why I proposed a change to RS#1 a few years back and was completely dismissed by just about everyone.

The only thing 8.8.I does is exempt a BR/R from being tagged out after overrunning 1B when returning directly to the base. If the player does not meet the demands of the rule, this is simply an active runner who is in jeopardy of being tagged out as per 8.7.2. If they want to extend that protection to anytime the runner does not attempt to advance to 2B, the word "directly" should be removed from the rule

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

That's only when the ball's in the circle (8.7.t)
And I don't think it's "immediately", just directly.
She can mosey on back, as long as she doesn't change her mind about where she's going.

This is true, there is no "time restriction", but the rule does say "directly" and walking to the 1st base dugout is not a direct return to the base as required.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by youngump

And being extremely technical the rule merely says that the BR is not out if they return immediately. It says nothing about what happens if the BR doesn't unless they advance to second.

At the risk of seeming combative, I bet my dollar that the word "immediately" will not be found with a rule cite referring to a BR overrunning first.

The operative word is "directly". 8-8-I

...just being a late night rules (plus beer) pedant, as umpires are wont to do....

[josephrt1]

OK, I will claim that dollar.

Obviously this is a different situation with the look-back rule when the ball is in the circle. But to take your challenge literally, here is a citing (8.7.T.2). The word over-run and immediately do appear in the same sentence but not in 8.8.I.

8.7.T.2. A batter-runner who over-runs first base toward right field, turns left and immediately stops, must then return non-stop to first base or attempt to advance non-stop to second base.

Please realize this is being done in jest. I understand the rule but just responding literally to the words in your challenge.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by teebob21

At the risk of seeming combative, I bet my dollar that the word "immediately" will not be found with a rule cite referring to a BR overrunning first.

The operative word is "directly". 8-8-I

...just being a late night rules (plus beer) pedant, as umpires are wont to do....

Yeah. I admit I did not look up the rule; just took someone's word for it! (Thanks, Cecil! )

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by josephrt1

OK, I will claim that dollar.

Obviously this is a different situation with the look-back rule when the ball is in the circle. But to take your challenge literally, here is a citing (8.7.T.2). The word over-run and immediately do appear in the same sentence but not in 8.8.I.

8.7.T.2. A batter-runner who over-runs first base toward right field, turns left and immediately stops, must then return non-stop to first base or attempt to advance non-stop to second base.

Please realize this is being done in jest. I understand the rule but just responding literally to the words in your challenge.

Hoisted on my own petard -- I'd briefly forgotten that the look back rule covers overrunning explicitly. Well done.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Hoisted on my own petard -- I'd briefly forgotten that the look back rule covers overrunning explicitly. Well done.

For the record:

Whenever members of this board have gotten together (it used to happen a bit at ASA National UIC Clinics, for example, and a few at ASA National Council Meetings), no bet was ever accepted as a dollar. The only accepted currency was to buy a beer (or 7) for the other.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

For the record:

Whenever members of this board have gotten together (it used to happen a bit at ASA National UIC Clinics, for example, and a few at ASA National Council Meetings), no bet was ever accepted as a dollar. The only accepted currency was to buy a beer (or 7) for the other.

I get it; beers are usually involved too. This is something I picked up at my old work - when there was a civil disagreement and neither party would budge, the token dollar bet usually got thrown down to settle it. It isn't about the money, it's about the honor, basically. Loser signs the dollar and pays up. Our cubicle walls were littered with "victory notes" like this one. Dont bet if youre not sure. Shame is forever - Imgur

"From Matt - Time between pitches rule = 10 seconds." I got this one off one of the umpires at my national this summer. (I wrote on it wrong when I got home - we were arguing the requirements for the hands together, not time between pitches...but Sharpies are unforgiving. I know what it means.)

[Umpire@1]

if was off the base when he was tagged, he would be out. Otherwise you have nothing. Play on..