Ball status

[Tru_in_Blu]

I got to thinking about ball status as a result of one of the questions on this year's ASA Umpire Exam.

I'm wondering about when a batted ball is no longer considered a batted ball, or a pitched ball is no longer considered a pitched ball.

Examples to help clarify:

Many fields with a temporary fence may have a gap between the chain link fence and the start of the temporary fence. If a batter hits a fair line drive down a foul line and the fielder dives for it but it deflects off their glove and through that gap in the fence, I believe the 2 base award for runners and BR would be from the TOP. But say it was a pop fly that landed fair, is overrun by the fielder and when the fielder goes back to retrieve the now motionless ball, s/he inadvertently kicks it into DBT. Would that be 2 bases based on the position of the runners at the "time of throw", or in this case, kick?

Likewise, on a pitched ball. A pitch that immediately goes out of play (over the backstop or through a hole in the backstop is a 1 base award from TOP. Same for a deflected ball off the umpire or F2 that goes out of play. But if the ball has stopped rolling after bouncing off F2 and a defensive player while hustling to retrieve the ball kicks or otherwise knocks the ball into DBT, would that be a 2 base award from where runners were positioned at the time of that new impetus?

Thanx.

[RKBUmp]

ASA has a case play regarding a ball that is kicked into dead ball territory. The result of the case play is essentially when the defensive player provides the impetus that forces the ball into dead ball territory, it is treated exactly the same as a thrown ball. The award is 2 bases from the time of the force applied to the ball by the defense.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

ASA has a case play regarding a ball that is kicked into dead ball territory. The result of the case play is essentially when the defensive player provides the impetus that forces the ball into dead ball territory, it is treated exactly the same as a thrown ball. The award is 2 bases from the time of the force applied to the ball by the defense.

I recall seeing that somewhere. I think it had more to do with a batted ball. Do you know the year of the case play, or better yet, the rule(s) it would reference?

Any specifics on the pitched ball scenario?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I recall seeing that somewhere. I think it had more to do with a batted ball.

I believe it has more to do with a live ball as opposed to a batted or thrown ball as the causation of the ball becoming dead has nothing to do with the ball being batted, thrown or pitched.

Could the interpretation be clearer? Yes, but as is routinely demonstrated on these types of boards, folks don't always accept general statements or interpretations well.

[RKBUmp]

It was actually a clarification, not a case play. July 2009 clarifications.

Play 2: With no outs and R1 on 2B, B2 hits a line drive to F7. R1 is off on the hit and headed toward 3B when F7 misses the sinking line drive and knocks the ball forward on the ground in front of him. While running in and trying to scoop up the ball, F7 kicks the ball into the 3B dugout. When the ball entered the 3B dugout, R1 is two steps from 3B and B2 is not yet to 1B. Which bases should R1 and B2 be awarded? RULING: R1 is awarded home and B2 is awarded 2B. The ball being kicked into dead ball territory would be treated the same as if F7 threw the ball into dead ball territory. Each runner would be awarded two bases from the time the ball left F7’s foot. (Rule 8, Section 5G)

Yes, the clarification is based on a batted ball, but it states the ball being kicked into dead ball territory would be treated exactly the same as if the ball had been thrown into dead ball territory. As I said on a similar post on another board to the same question, if F2 had picked up the ball and thrown it into the dugout what would the base award be?

[Tru_in_Blu]

I'm still researching...

I found a case play from 2007. It reads:

PLAY 8.6-22
(FP and SP with stealing) With R1 on 1B, F2 drops the pitch and the plate umpire, in an effort to get out of the way, accidentally kicks the ball into the dugout.
RULING: R1 is awarded 1 base from the base held at the time of the pitch. This is treated the same as a wild pitch. (8-5C)

Section C specifically refers to: "a pitched ball that remains live becomes blocked or goes out of live ball territory."

Section G talks to "when the ball is live and is overthrown or is blocked".

So "C" would give the defense a break anytime there are multiple runners on a pitch that gets away, they could just kick it out of play to limit further advance by base runners.

I don't like it. I'd prefer the 2-base award if the defense knocked the ball out of play either accidentally or intentionally.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I believe it has more to do with a live ball as opposed to a batted or thrown ball as the causation of the ball becoming dead has nothing to do with the ball being batted, thrown or pitched.

Could the interpretation be clearer? Yes, but as is routinely demonstrated on these types of boards, folks don't always accept general statements or interpretations well.

I guess I'm one of those guilty ones.

Back to my original post, I think I've now learned that a pitched ball remains a pitched ball until it has been picked up by the defense. And, that a pitched ball that is moving or has come to rest that is kicked to DBT by either a defensive player or the PU would result in a 1-base award from TOP. And while still considered a live ball (prior to going to DBT) it does not warrant a 2-base award.

There's some good questions on this year's exam. (And one obviously egregiously wrong answer.)