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Old Sat Mar 28, 2009, 05:44pm
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NCAA - Status of ball mechanic

I know the proper ASA mechanic on a fly ball close to the foul line is to point either fair or foul when the ball is first touched, establishing the status of the ball before catch/no catch. Is it the same for NCAA? I don't see this mentioned in the CCA manual.
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Old Sat Mar 28, 2009, 05:52pm
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I believe the proper mechanic for NCAA is to have your hands straight up to signal dead ball (foul) and only point for a fair ball. I do not think they want you to point for a foul ball.
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Old Sat Mar 28, 2009, 09:20pm
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FAIR/FOUL INDICATOR
The Fair/Foul Indicator signal is no longer
endorsed.
On any fly ball close to the fair/foul line the
umpire should straddle the line, feet shoulder
width apart, and, depending on the resulting
action, rule the ball fair, foul, or an out.

From the 2007 NCAA Umpire Manual

Paul
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Old Sat Mar 28, 2009, 09:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3SPORT View Post
I believe the proper mechanic for NCAA is to have your hands straight up to signal dead ball (foul) and only point for a fair ball. I do not think they want you to point for a foul ball.
That's correct.
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Old Sat Mar 28, 2009, 11:31pm
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Thanks all!
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Old Sun Mar 29, 2009, 07:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Az.Ump View Post
FAIR/FOUL INDICATOR
The Fair/Foul Indicator signal is no longer
endorsed.
On any fly ball close to the fair/foul line the
umpire should straddle the line, feet shoulder
width apart, and, depending on the resulting
action, rule the ball fair, foul, or an out.

From the 2007 NCAA Umpire Manual

Paul
I don't think this is in the manual any longer. If a fly ball lands fair close to the foul line, why not give a fair signal?

A caught fly ball on the other hand is neither fair nor foul, it's an out.
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Old Sun Mar 29, 2009, 10:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topper View Post
I don't think this is in the manual any longer. If a fly ball lands fair close to the foul line, why not give a fair signal?

A caught fly ball on the other hand is neither fair nor foul, it's an out.
Would that not be included in "rule the ball fair"?

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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 07:12am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Az.Ump View Post
Would that not be included in "rule the ball fair"?

Paul
Are ruling and signaling the same? Your 1st post begins by stating "The Fair/Foul Indicator signal is no longer endorsed." Then it talks about ruling fair, foul, or out. Based on this, I'm not sure I can answer your question, but my guess would be, no, it's not included in "rule the ball fair".
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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 08:52am
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Okay, let's summarize for everyone's clarity.

ASA currently (it hasn't always) prescribes to a point, fair or foul, on first touch of a fly ball near the line. If caught, whether fair or foul, it is followed with an "out" signal and verbal call. If uncaught when pointed fair, the fair point stands; if uncaught when pointed foul, it is followed up with a dead ball signal and verbal call of "foul".

NCAA does not want the first touch point. All caught fly balls are signaled and verbalized as "out'; the official scorekeeper can decide if they care if the ball was fair or foul (I predict that, if the NCAA mechanic changes, it will be for this reason, the all important statistic!!). Uncaught balls are either pointed fair, or verbalized as "foul", with a dead ball signal, no foul point.

Personally, I prefer the "no point" version; as it used to be in ASA, as well. I see extremely limited value in the first touch point; if runners can advance, their coaches should be directing them to, and both offense and defense should be playing as if the ball is fair, until it is called foul. Nonetheless, the current staff prescribes the point.
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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 09:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
...Personally, I prefer the "no point" version; as it used to be in ASA, as well. I see extremely limited value in the first touch point; if runners can advance, their coaches should be directing them to, and both offense and defense should be playing as if the ball is fair, until it is called foul. Nonetheless, the current staff prescribes the point.
IMO, the main advantage to the "point at first touch" version is for the umpire (especially inexperienced umpires). It helps them keep the priorities straight. Fair/foul first, catch/no catch second. I'd guess that is why ASA adopted the mechanic. (Just a guess, though.)
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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 02:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota View Post
IMO, the main advantage to the "point at first touch" version is for the umpire (especially inexperienced umpires). It helps them keep the priorities straight. Fair/foul first, catch/no catch second. I'd guess that is why ASA adopted the mechanic. (Just a guess, though.)
That's what I like about the ASA mechanic. Even with 16 years experience, it reminds me of my first priority. For college games, I whisper fair or foul to myself before giving the out, fair, or dead ball signal. (Well, I WILL whisper it when I return to the field next year.)
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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 02:57pm
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Originally Posted by argodad View Post
That's what I like about the ASA mechanic. Even with 16 years experience, it reminds me of my first priority. For college games, I whisper fair or foul to myself before giving the out, fair, or dead ball signal. (Well, I WILL whisper it when I return to the field next year.)
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Old Mon Mar 30, 2009, 03:09pm
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I am in the same school as Steve. I am a "no point" person, and have really never seen the need for it. Mentally I can prioritize without demonstrating to the rest of the world that I am doing so.
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Old Tue Mar 31, 2009, 12:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skahtboi View Post
I am in the same school as Steve. I am a "no point" person, and have really never seen the need for it. Mentally I can prioritize without demonstrating to the rest of the world that I am doing so.
In full and open agreement here. If it is fair, you are pointing anyway. If foul, the mechanic is redundant. To me, killing the play should be the priority because if it is dead, no one really cares if you pointed foul prior to the dead ball signal. What are you going to do, point fair and then signal "dead ball"? Or maybe point foul and call nothing!

And if it is caught, who cares what side of the line it was on? It is an out, end of story.

Also, I don't buy the "status of the ball" BS for a second. I have been told by a RUIC that you determine the status of the ball in the air prior to the play. Huh?!?!

By the time you see the catch or ball land, you point and by the time you come with the hammer, the ball is back in the circle.

The ONLY time a point may be necesarry or advantageous to the participants is on a bobbled ball. Then I will point even though by the time I do, any runners will be halfway to the next base.
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Old Tue Mar 31, 2009, 01:38pm
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Here is the rationale I have heard from a couple of clinicians on this, and it applies to new or inexperienced umpires. By the time you (as the new and inexperienced umpire) realize the ball is NOT caught, it is too late to see where the ball was first touched. So, it helps the (new and inexperienced) umpire focus first on where the ball is when first touched. If it is caught, it doesn't matter where it was.
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