Dead Ball or Out?

[AtlUmpSteve]

I believe we have all come to terms with the difference between a discarded bat hitting the ball in fair territory (dead ball, out), and the ball hitting a discarded bat in fair territory (play on, ball live, bat is now part of the field).

So why don't we get the (similar) difference between a batted ball hitting a batter that is still in the batter's box (dead ball, foul ball), and a batter-runner that makes contact with a fair batted ball (dead ball, out), whether in the box, partially in the box or (obviously) out of the box?

It seems so simple, why is it an issue? Same in every rule set, and actually the same as baseball.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I believe we have all come to terms with the difference between a discarded bat hitting the ball in fair territory (dead ball, out), and the ball hitting a discarded bat in fair territory (play on, ball live, bat is now part of the field).

So why don't we get the (similar) difference between a batted ball hitting a batter that is still in the batter's box (dead ball, foul ball), and a batter-runner that makes contact with a fair batted ball (dead ball, out), whether in the box, partially in the box or (obviously) out of the box?

It seems so simple, why is it an issue? Same in every rule set, and actually the same as baseball.

What are you trying to say?

[Gulf Coast Blue]

He means to not overthink it like baseball people do.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

I believe we have all come to terms with the difference between a discarded bat hitting the ball in fair territory (dead ball, out), and the ball hitting a discarded bat in fair territory (play on, ball live, bat is now part of the field).

So why don't we get the (similar) difference between a batted ball hitting a batter that is still in the batter's box (dead ball, foul ball), and a batter-runner that makes contact with a fair batted ball (dead ball, out), whether in the box, partially in the box or (obviously) out of the box?

It seems so simple, why is it an issue? Same in every rule set, and actually the same as baseball.

If a BR still in the box contacts a fair batted ball, I don't think the BR is out (see bold). Else, someone pour me more coffee.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

If a BR still in the box contacts a fair batted ball, I don't think the BR is out (see bold). Else, someone pour me more coffee.

That's close. If the BALL is in the box when it hits the batter (or the batter hits it), it's a foul ball... Doesn't matter where the rest of the batter is.

The OP is an out.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

That's close. If the BALL is in the box when it hits the batter (or the batter hits it), it's a foul ball... Doesn't matter where the rest of the batter is.

The OP is an out.

Same question as to CecilOne. What rule can you cite that supports the ball being in the batter's box (in fair territory) which the BR contacts being a foul ball?

No rule that I see supports that. The intent is that the batter may hit a ball into the batter's own body BEFORE the batter starts to run; that is a foul ball, irrespective of the batter's position in front or back of the batter's box, thus possibly in fair territory.

No rule supports the batter beginning to run (becoming a batter-runner) and the player initiating contact with the batted ball (that hasn't touched the player prior to starting to run), in fair territory (WHETHER IN OR OUT OF THE BATTER'S BOX) being anything but OUT!

Don't want to make that call? Admit no balls, not rule support. Or cite me a rule with that support.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

If a BR still in the box contacts a fair batted ball, I don't think the BR is out (see bold). Else, someone pour me more coffee.

Cite the rule that supports your statement, please. I will cite 8.2-F(4) in ASA as calling the BR out (by making contact with a fair batted ball before reaching first base", and further state that the definition of Foul Ball (F) only covers a batted ball that touches the batter, NOT a batted ball that the BR contacts. Further 8.1-A makes that person a BR, no longer a batter, "as soon as the batter legally hits a fair ball"; fair without regard to being in or out of the batter's box.

So which rule can you cite that supports the BR initiating contact with a fair batted ball while still in the box creating a foul ball?