Hit on Bengals punter

[bisonlj]

I think the biggest issue here is the use of the word defenseless. People try to apply the dictionary definition rather than the rule book definition (similar to uncatchable). Maybe "protected" would be a better word.

Someone who truly knows and understands the rules realizes very quickly how important the definitions are. This is a great example. There is another rule that refers to what is illegal against "defenseless" players. That means defenseless has to be defined and referenced in other places. Rather than saying what can't be done to a passer or kicker, they identified them as defenseless and applied the protections defined elsewhere in the book.

I've heard so many people getting hung up on the word "defenseless" because he's obviously not defenseless in this situation (unless you want to consider this a blindside hit). It's a defined player designation which brings certain certain rules into play.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I think the biggest issue here is the use of the word defenseless. People try to apply the dictionary definition rather than the rule book definition

Especially since outside of the NFL, the term is commonly applied in football in its ordinary meaning.

But say...has anyone here actually verified that this is a technical term now in NFL? Or are we just assuming it?

[hbk314]

One potential issue is that you have the punter ona return potentially in with all of his teammates. It shouldn't be the responsibility of a return team member to have to identify the one guy out of the 11 he can't block a certain way.

[APG]

Originally Posted by hbk314

One potential issue is that you have the punter ona return potentially in with all of his teammates. It shouldn't be the responsibility of a return team member to have to identify the one guy out of the 11 he can't block a certain way.

It's not hard to figure out who the punter or the kicker is is...he's the guy who..kicked the ball and who you've probably seen on film countless times during the week before. The onus is on the player to know who he's blocking. If in doubt, don't blow him up in the head or use the crown against his body...or illegally launch into him.

[Matt]

Out of morbid curiosity, I want to see a thread between HBK and Rut. The amount of bloviating and paths beaten around the mulberry bush would make a used-car salesman feel like a mute preacher.

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by Matt

Out of morbid curiosity, I want to see a thread between HBK and Rut. The amount of bloviating and paths beaten around the mulberry bush would make a used-car salesman feel like a mute preacher.

There's a couple. WISCONSIN - ASU and the Gronkowski play come to mind.

[HLin NC]

Lord, no. Let them remain dead.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by hbk314

One potential issue is that you have the punter ona return potentially in with all of his teammates. It shouldn't be the responsibility of a return team member to have to identify the one guy out of the 11 he can't block a certain way.

Again ... people much closer to the actual situation, who have vested monetary interest in both the success of the game and the safety of players, disagree with what SHOULD or SHOULD NOT be. If you disagree so drastically about what should be in this sport ... stop watching.

Seems to me you need to seriously decide whether you're here to learn or here to complain. You started this thread with the pretense of learning, but you certainly aren't there anymore.

[Rich]

At anything below the NFL level, I'm flagging this as UNR without a second thought regardless of the location of the crown of the helmet.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Rich

At anything below the NFL level, I'm flagging this as UNR without a second thought regardless of the location of the crown of the helmet.

How does the block need to be made to not be UNR for you? I assume it's not that he was blocked in the first place, because the punter was, imo, in position to make a play had he not been blocked.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Rich

At anything below the NFL level, I'm flagging this as UNR without a second thought regardless of the location of the crown of the helmet.

I think in NCAA this hit meets both types of targeting so I agree.

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I think in NCAA this hit meets both types of targeting so I agree.

What are the criteria for those?

[APG]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Especially since outside of the NFL, the term is commonly applied in football in its ordinary meaning.

But say...has anyone here actually verified that this is a technical term now in NFL? Or are we just assuming it?

The NFL defined has defined who is considered in a defenseless posture:

Article 7: Players in a Defenseless Posture.
It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.

(a) Players in a defenseless posture are:

(1) A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass;
(2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;
(3) A runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped;
(4) A kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air;
(5) A player on the ground;
(6) A kicker/punter during the kick or during the return (Also see Article 6(g) for additional restrictions against a kicker/punter);
(7) A quarterback at any time after a change of possession (Also see Article 8(f) for additional restrictions against a quarterback after a change of possession);
(8) A player who receives a ―blindside block when the offensive blocker is moving toward or parallel to his own end line and approaches the opponent from behind or from the side, and
(9) A player who is protected from an illegal crackback block (see Article 2);
(10) The offensive player who attempts a snap during a Field Goal attempt or a Try Kick.

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Part 10 is a new rule for this year.