The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Football

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 19, 2013, 01:08pm
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 318
Hit on Bengals punter

Dean Blandino, head of NFL officials, says hit on Kevin Huber was illegal - ESPN

What's the logic behind that rule?

Logically to me, the punter would be just like any other player on the field once the ball's away. If not, he should be required to leave the field immediately after kicking it away.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 19, 2013, 01:21pm
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk314 View Post
Dean Blandino, head of NFL officials, says hit on Kevin Huber was illegal - ESPN

What's the logic behind that rule?

Logically to me, the punter would be just like any other player on the field once the ball's away. If not, he should be required to leave the field immediately after kicking it away.
The NFL has two rationales for many of their unnecessary roughness rules. One involves players not being able to protect themselves due to performing actions commonly performed by the player. This would be be a receiver in the act of catching the ball up to the point of becoming a runner, a passer, or a kicker/punter who has kicked the ball, the snapper on a field goal/extra point, a person in the act of catching a punt/kickoff, etc.

The other protections that the NFL has come up with is due to the relative nature of the actual position, the relative scarcity and specialization of the position, and the advantage that would be bestowed to the opponent if they were given free leeway with unnecessary shots on that player. This is going to be your QB throughout a down and a kicker/punter throughout the kick and return. You lose a kicker or a punter, you've seriously hampered a team's special teams ability...especially since only 1 K and 1 P is carried on game day.

Your last statement is silly. If a player is defenseless by the rule, it doesn't mean you can't contact him. It means he can't be hit above the shoulders with a helmet, forearm, or shoulder. They also can't be contacted in the body with any part of the crown of the helmet. They also can't be illegally launched into. I mean seriously...we've seen P/K light up all the team...and not in the head...that's still legal.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 19, 2013, 01:26pm
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by APG View Post
The NFL has two rationales for many of their unnecessary roughness rules. One involves players not being able to protect themselves due to performing actions commonly performed by the player. This would be be a receiver in the act of catching the ball up to the point of becoming a runner, a passer, or a kicker/punter who has kicked the ball, the snapper on a field goal/extra point.

The other protections that the NFL has come up with is due to the relative nature of the actual position and the relative scarcity and specialization of the position and the advantage that would be bestowed to the opponent if they were given necessary shots on that player. This is going to be your QB throughout a down and a kicker/punter throughout the kick and return. You lose a kicker or a punter, you've seriously hampered a team's special teams ability...especially since only 1 K and 1 P is carried on game day.
Then punters should stay out of the play and not put themselves in position to get hit, especially when it would have been a legal hit on any of his 10 teammates on the field. If he's "defenseless" he should be headed off the field.

I completely understand the vulnerability of certain players in certain situations (defenseless receivers, punters/QBs in the kicking/throwing motion), but it seems like if they're going to be allowed the same level of participation in the play as everyone else, they should be subject to the same rules as everyone else, since at that point, they're not any more defenseless than any other player.

It just seems like they're legislating something that the players/teams involved should be smart enough to avoid.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 19, 2013, 01:30pm
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk314 View Post
Then punters should stay out of the play and not put themselves in position to get hit, especially when it would have been a legal hit on any of his 10 teammates on the field. If he's "defenseless" he should be headed off the field.

I completely understand the vulnerability of certain players in certain situations (defenseless receivers, punters/QBs in the kicking/throwing motion), but it seems like if they're going to be allowed the same level of participation in the play as everyone else, they should be subject to the same rules as everyone else, since at that point, they're not any more defenseless than any other player.

It just seems like they're legislating something that the players/teams involved should be smart enough to avoid.
Why should they get off the field? You act as if a punter/kicker can not be contacted throughout the down. The only thing you can't do is hit the punter up high or use the top or crown of your helmet to him anywhere or illegally launch into him. If the punter/kicker was not allowed to be contacted at all, and was free to participate in the play, then your point would have merit.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 19, 2013, 01:44pm
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by APG View Post
Why should they get off the field? You act as if a punter/kicker can not be contacted throughout the down. The only thing you can't do is hit the punter up high or use the top or crown of your helmet to him anywhere or illegally launch into him. If the punter/kicker was not allowed to be contacted at all, and was free to participate in the play, then your point would have merit.
It still has merit. There's no logical reason to legislate an advantage for one player on the field when in reality he's not any more "defenseless" than any other play. If he doesn't want to get hit like any other player, he should stay away from the play.

Even the Colts' punter more or less agrees with me.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10...-label-setback
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 19, 2013, 01:49pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 537
Well....if the Colts' punter has spoken, I guess the debate is over!

Just block them without hitting above the shoulders or launching and it's a non-issue.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 19, 2013, 01:54pm
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk314 View Post
It still has merit. There's no logical reason to legislate an advantage for one player on the field when in reality he's not any more "defenseless" than any other play. If he doesn't want to get hit like any other player, he should stay away from the play.

Even the Colts' punter more or less agrees with me.

Indianapolis Colts punter Pat McAfee -- Defenseless label a setback - ESPN
Good for him. The NFL doesn't care. The NFL won't change the rule any time soon just like they won't change the rule with quarterbacks being considered defenseless during a change of possession (which means they're getting all the same protections as a kicker/punter).

I already gave you the logic behind the rule. You just don't like and/or agree with the reasoning. It's not a matter of the punter/kicker not wanting to get hit...the NFL doesn't want kickers/punters exposed to what is in their eyes is unnecessary (especially when what would happen if a team were to lose a kicker/punter during a game)...go ahead and blow him up...just don't hit him illegally.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 19, 2013, 01:57pm
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,983
QBs and kickers/punters are in limited supply as fairly specialized role players.

Because these players are in more specialized roles, the other team tends to headhunt them more, intentionally seeking them out during plays like kick returns and interceptions to blow them up.

The NFL is in the entertainment business. They've determined that this type of headhunting is detrimental to the product they put on the field.

Ergo, they have chosen this method of extending further protection to these players so that their desired product is put on the field.

If you'd like to suggest a rule change to the NFL as a concerned fan of the game, I'm sure there's a way to do that.

As to officials, "Theirs not to reason why, theirs but to do and die"
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 19, 2013, 01:57pm
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by APG View Post
Good for him. The NFL doesn't care. The NFL won't change the rule any time soon just like they won't change the rule with quarterbacks being considered defenseless during a change of possession (which means they're getting all the same protections as a kicker/punter).

I already gave you the logic behind the rule. You just don't like and/or agree with the reasoning. It's not a matter of the punter/kicker not wanting to get hit...the NFL doesn't want kickers/punters exposed to what is in their eyes is unnecessary...go ahead and blow him up...just don't hit him illegally.
Because there is no logic. If you don't want to get hit, stay away from the play. If you get hit and injured and you're the only punter on the roster, that's your fault. There's no reason that the NFL should be legislating extra protection for a player who isn't defenseless by any stretch of the imagination.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 19, 2013, 02:00pm
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,983
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk314 View Post
Because there is no logic.
There is, you just don't like it.

I'm sorry we are unable to provide you with an answer that is satisfactory.

If it makes you feel any better, this is a foul even if the player hit wasn't defenseless.
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 19, 2013, 02:03pm
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
There is, you just don't like it.

I'm sorry we are unable to provide you with an answer that is satisfactory.

If it makes you feel any better, this is a foul even if the player hit wasn't defenseless.
Not according the Blandino's statement.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 19, 2013, 02:05pm
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk314 View Post
Because there is no logic. If you don't want to get hit, stay away from the play. If you get hit and injured and you're the only punter on the roster, that's your fault. There's no reason that the NFL should be legislating extra protection for a player who isn't defenseless by any stretch of the imagination.
Like I said...you just don't like the logic.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 19, 2013, 02:07pm
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by hbk314 View Post
Not according the Blandino's statement.
If the block is considered a blindside block (offensive blocker is moving toward or parallel to his own end line and approaches the opponent from behind or from the side), then the blocked player would receive defenseless player protections.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 19, 2013, 02:07pm
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by APG View Post
If the block is considered a blindside block (offensive blocker is moving toward or parallel to his own end line and approaches the opponent from behind or from the side), then the blocked player would receive defenseless player protections.
Then he would have said that.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Dec 19, 2013, 02:08pm
In Time Out
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 318
Quote:
Originally Posted by APG View Post
Like I said...you just don't like the logic.
You're calling a player defenseless when he isn't defenseless. How is that at all logical? I can't like or dislike what isn't there.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
running punter tidefanintenn Football 3 Wed Nov 23, 2011 03:04pm
Ron Winter gets a scare....Bengals v. Ravens HLin NC Football 4 Mon Nov 21, 2011 09:35pm
Kill the Punter parepat Football 36 Fri Sep 28, 2007 12:47pm
Steelers-Bengals - okay, I know this is the Basketball forum... canuckrefguy Basketball 2 Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:23am
Broncos @ Bengals Monday Night Cheap Shot Simbio Football 7 Tue Oct 26, 2004 11:24pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:49pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1