Couple Questions on 12/29 NFL Games

[hbk314]

First, in the Eagles-Cowboys game, the Cowboys were flagged for delay of game, but it appears the play clock was reset to 25 seconds and not 40. Is there one official in charge of keeping the clock, and, if so, how does a 15 second discrepancy get overlooked? The penalty ultimately didn't hurt Dallas, as they ended up scoring a touchdown a few plays later.

Second, in the Chiefs-Chargers game, KC was lined up to kick a 41-yard field goal with eight seconds left. They ended up missing, but San Diego had seven players lined up on one side of their formation. If that had been observed by the officials it would have been a five yard penalty, correct? It ended up being significant because if KC had gotten to retry from 36 yards out, there's a high probability he makes it with no time left, and it actually would have changed the AFC playoff picture. The way I understand it is that it's a new rule that was likely overlooked. Is it one official's responsibility to look for that, or can anyone call it?

Originally Posted by hbk314

First, in the Eagles-Cowboys game, the Cowboys were flagged for delay of game, but it appears the play clock was reset to 25 seconds and not 40. Is there one official in charge of keeping the clock, and, if so, how does a 15 second discrepancy get overlooked? The penalty ultimately didn't hurt Dallas, as they ended up scoring a touchdown a few plays later.

Yes, the back judge. On Steretore's crew the back judge is Dino Paganelli, who worked last year's Super Bowl.

[JRutledge]

It is a little more than the BJ. Everyone on the crew could have noticed this and made the correction.

Peace

[JugglingReferee]

Likely the U or the S (when in double-U formation) is responsible for this. It looks awkward for a deep guy to call this. I know the rule exists, but what is the threshold for distance behind the line which you no longer count as part of the 7 or more?

[SamG]

Does the play clock reset not apply in this situation?

Time between plays will be 40 seconds from the end of a given play until the snap of the ball for the next play, or a 25-second interval after certain administrative stoppages and game delays.

NFL Rules Digest: Timing

On the kick, again, looking at the nfl rules digest, I don't see any requirement for defensive (or offensive for that matter) players to have 'x' amount of players on a certain side. NFL Rules Digest: Position of Players at Snap
So I don't understand why this would matter.

Just a fan, not an official.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SamG

Does the play clock reset not apply in this situation?

NFL Rules Digest: Timing

On the kick, again, looking at the nfl rules digest, I don't see any requirement for defensive (or offensive for that matter) players to have 'x' amount of players on a certain side. NFL Rules Digest: Position of Players at Snap
So I don't understand why this would matter.

Just a fan, not an official.

On 1, no -- it was a usual play from scrimmage, so the play clock is 40 from the end of the previous play.

2 -- it's a new rule this season and one probably nobody who's not an NFL official had heard of prior to yesterday. OK, maybe a few people knew it -- I didn't.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by hbk314

First, in the Eagles-Cowboys game, the Cowboys were flagged for delay of game, but it appears the play clock was reset to 25 seconds and not 40. Is there one official in charge of keeping the clock, and, if so, how does a 15 second discrepancy get overlooked? The penalty ultimately didn't hurt Dallas, as they ended up scoring a touchdown a few plays later.

Second, in the Chiefs-Chargers game, KC was lined up to kick a 41-yard field goal with eight seconds left. They ended up missing, but San Diego had seven players lined up on one side of their formation. If that had been observed by the officials it would have been a five yard penalty, correct? It ended up being significant because if KC had gotten to retry from 36 yards out, there's a high probability he makes it with no time left, and it actually would have changed the AFC playoff picture. The way I understand it is that it's a new rule that was likely overlooked. Is it one official's responsibility to look for that, or can anyone call it?

The video I've seen shows the clock going to 25 but I don't see it running from there. Has anyone seen confirmation it ran from here? On our crew the BJ is primary on the play clock but others watch it as well. I'll check it on many plays as an umpire to see when I got the ball spotted. On most plays it is between 28 and 32. If the clock was set as 25 and then run it would be 13 to 17. That would cause me to take an official's time out because we either did not get the ball set fast enough or the clock would not be set properly.

The league has said they missed the illegal formation foul. Two of the guys are out wide so I wasn't sure if they counted. It sounds like any defensive player on the LOS counted. Did the S and U see this and pass on it because they felt it wasn't significant? Did they just miss it? It's a procedural foul they should get, but it had no impact on the play. There's no guarantee the Chiefs would have made the 36-yarder. Both are fairly automatic for most NFL-level kickers. It's not the first error a crew has made and it won't be the last. It had as much of an impact as several other things that happened in the game (i.e. turnovers, bad coaching decisions, missed routes, bad reads). Officials never want to make mistakes that have an impact on the outcome of the game, but you have to accept the fact this was not the only reason the Chiefs lost this game. The Steelers did plenty of things on their own to finish 8-8 so they can't blame their lack of a playoff spot on this call alone. It's just easy to blame the officials.

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

The video I've seen shows the clock going to 25 but I don't see it running from there. Has anyone seen confirmation it ran from here? On our crew the BJ is primary on the play clock but others watch it as well. I'll check it on many plays as an umpire to see when I got the ball spotted. On most plays it is between 28 and 32. If the clock was set as 25 and then run it would be 13 to 17. That would cause me to take an official's time out because we either did not get the ball set fast enough or the clock would not be set properly.

The league has said they missed the illegal formation foul. Two of the guys are out wide so I wasn't sure if they counted. It sounds like any defensive player on the LOS counted. Did the S and U see this and pass on it because they felt it wasn't significant? Did they just miss it? It's a procedural foul they should get, but it had no impact on the play. There's no guarantee the Chiefs would have made the 36-yarder. Both are fairly automatic for most NFL-level kickers. It's not the first error a crew has made and it won't be the last. It had as much of an impact as several other things that happened in the game (i.e. turnovers, bad coaching decisions, missed routes, bad reads). Officials never want to make mistakes that have an impact on the outcome of the game, but you have to accept the fact this was not the only reason the Chiefs lost this game. The Steelers did plenty of things on their own to finish 8-8 so they can't blame their lack of a playoff spot on this call alone. It's just easy to blame the officials.

It's a lot easier to blame something that happens at the end. If you point to something that happened earlier in the game, you end up trying to guess what would have played out differently after. On a play like this, you know they would have been attempting a 36 yard field goal that would have ended regulation. There's a high probability he makes it.

I actually am still blaming the Chiefs, as all they had to do was make the field goal in the first place. The Steelers had themselves in position to make the playoffs. The Chiefs missing the field goal and not getting a rekick likely (if the rekick had been made) cost the Steelers a playoff spot.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by hbk314

It's a lot easier to blame something that happens at the end. If you point to something that happened earlier in the game, you end up trying to guess what would have played out differently after. On a play like this, you know they would have been attempting a 36 yard field goal that would have ended regulation. There's a high probability he makes it.

I actually am still blaming the Chiefs, as all they had to do was make the field goal in the first place. The Steelers had themselves in position to make the playoffs. The Chiefs missing the field goal and not getting a rekick likely (if the rekick had been made) cost the Steelers a playoff spot.

I just heard Mike Tomlin take full responsibility for them not making the playoffs. They had 16 opportunities this season to not have it come down to this call. I'm sure someone can get the stats but is the percentage of made FGs from 36 significantly different than 41? Probably not.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by hbk314

...The Chiefs missing the field goal and not getting a rekick likely (if the rekick had been made) cost the Steelers a playoff spot.

Being that for 15 years I have lived in the same part of town Mike Tomlin grew up in, I know for a fact he's not blaming KC's backups for the Steelers missing the play-offs. The month of September is the real reason.

[SamG]

Originally Posted by Rich

On 1, no -- it was a usual play from scrimmage, so the play clock is 40 from the end of the previous play.

I thought there was a delay of game penalty? I had assumed the OP was talking about the clock getting reset after the penalty enforcement. Do I misunderstand?

2 -- it's a new rule this season and one probably nobody who's not an NFL official had heard of prior to yesterday. OK, maybe a few people knew it -- I didn't.

So what's the new rule?

And thank you.

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by SamG

I thought there was a delay of game penalty? I had assumed the OP was talking about the clock getting reset after the penalty enforcement. Do I misunderstand?


So what's the new rule?

And thank you.

It was improperly reset to 25 seconds after a regular play.

That was why the delay of game happened. The Cowboys were just getting to the line when the shortened play clock expired.

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Being that for 15 years I have lived in the same part of town Mike Tomlin grew up in, I know for a fact he's not blaming KC's backups for the Steelers missing the play-offs. The month of September is the real reason.

True, the Steelers had a very bad start to the year. That's bit relevant to this topic. It doesn't change the facts.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by hbk314

True, the Steelers had a very bad start to the year. That's bit relevant to this topic. It doesn't change the facts.

I didn't see the play. Did the defensive overload at all impact the kick?

I know that should have no bearing on whether the flag is thrown, but in my view, it has a bearing on whether one could claim it cost the Chiefs the game.

At most, you could say it cost the Chiefs' kicker a cheap chance to make up for a missed 41 yard field goal.

Probably semantics, though.

[SamG]

Originally Posted by hbk314

It was improperly reset to 25 seconds after a regular play.

That was why the delay of game happened. The Cowboys were just getting to the line when the shortened play clock expired.

Ah, I misunderstood. I apologize.