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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 20, 2013, 01:02pm
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Originally Posted by bigjohn View Post



Not sure when you say Lie what you mean. The way I read these rules everyone is responsible for this new law.
You've been told countless times from people in the know that you are wrong, yet you continue to claim a law was broken, the officials knew the player was concussed, (because you "knew") that any injury in the head area causes a player to be removed, and the officials are supposed to stick their head in a group of medical professionals tending to an injured player.

You are either lying or just stupid.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 20, 2013, 01:40pm
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Originally Posted by bigjohn View Post
If this rule is to have any effect, the officials needs to find out what is wrong with this player that is being removed after laying on the ground for 5 minutes, if it is head related at all he needs to say to the head coach, He is done for the day.

That is the referees responsibility is to make sure a kid does not return to play after a head injury.
The coach and the trainers are definitely wrong to put a kid back in after being removed.

The official still is charged with enforcement of this rule if a coach breaks it.

That is very clearly the spirit of this rule and law. You guys can act like it is not his job to go find out why the kid was down. The Law says he needs to know and make sure no athlete is put in danger of serious injury.
If the rule is to do anything but chase officials out of the business, they need to not force officials to get involved in medical issues. Any law that tells officials to interject into situations where they are quite possibly the least qualified adults on the field needs to be repealed; and those who passed it flogged for stupidity.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 20, 2013, 02:02pm
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The first year the NFHS rule was in place we had a player injured on an interception return. He was hit hard and apparently knocked out when his head hit the turf (the hit was legal). We called the medical staff out right away. This wasn't a situation where we saw a guy staggering and sent him out, but we could tell the likely injury was a concussion.

I don't think I would consider that in this case just seeing him on the ground because I can't see anything on the video that shows he obviously took a hit to the head. If I saw him get up and walk off like he did though, I would likely ask if the injury was a possible concussion. If the answer is yes then I would use our local procedure (no re-admission without clearance from a medical personnel and reporting to the state).

Does the crew NEED to be this diligent? No. Should they? I think they should.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 20, 2013, 02:13pm
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I did not say they knew he was concussed. I said it was obvious he was showing signs or symptoms of a head injury/concussion. That is all that is needed for this rule to kick in. It doesn't matter who took him out of the game, it is the Referees job to stop play and remove him if he allowed back in the game.

That is what the DOD has said in official memos!
http://www.ohsaa.org/members/Memos/2013-08-30.pdf

3. Concussion:**When*a*player*has*signs*or*symptoms*o f*a*concussion*he*is*suspended*
from*the*game*and*may*not*reenter*the*game.**This* is*based*upon*Ohio*House*Bill*143.**
If*an*Ohio*Team*plays*a*game*in*another*state,*thi s*Rule*applies.**If*an*out*of*state*team*
plays*a*game*in*Ohio,*this*Rule*applies.**This*is* because*it*is*a*state*law*now
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 20, 2013, 02:20pm
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Originally Posted by bigjohn View Post
I did not say they knew he was concussed. I said it was obvious he was showing signs or symptoms of a head injury/concussion. That is all that is needed for this rule to kick in. It doesn't matter who took him out of the game, it is the Referees job to stop play and remove him if he allowed back in the game.
I know why we have talked about this before, but how was it obvious? Most of the stuff you claim that made it obvious was stuff after the game that you highlighted. Not sure how that is obvious. Not sure how that means the officials in the game noticed why the player was taken off the field? And BTW, the Referee is not the single person that stops play (more ignorance on your part). Any official can stop play for all kinds of reasons. One day you will realize that not everything is about what you think it should be.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 20, 2013, 02:26pm
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You are correct, there are 5 officials that should have seen this.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 20, 2013, 02:28pm
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Originally Posted by bigjohn View Post
You are correct, there are 5 officials that should have seen this.
And more ignorance, because 5 officials are not all watching the same things and certainly not the ball carrier. I would not be surprised if 3 or 4 guys did not even see the hit in question.

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 20, 2013, 02:31pm
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yeah, what were they all doing while he was being attended to an helped off the field?
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 20, 2013, 02:37pm
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Originally Posted by bigjohn View Post
yeah, what were they all doing while he was being attended to an helped off the field?
Several things. Talking about down and distance. Observing huddles or conferences. Talking to each other about a player or coach question. There are so many things officials can be doing and are doing during any timeout situation. Even at the State Finals they might be talking to someone about if they are going to commercial and when they come back if the games are on TV. There are a lot of things going on because everyone is not always focused on the injury when medical personnel are taking care of the situation. But if you officiated you might know that already and stop acting like you are shocked that the "Referee" who was the original person you thought should have seen this. And the Referee in many cases is not watching the ball or every block. They are focused on their area of responsibility and would have no idea what is going on at other parts of the field.

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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 20, 2013, 02:40pm
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That is a bunch of Bull!

It is clear to see most of officials observed the player. You can play your little game all you want. The kid should not have been back in the game per the memo from the DOD!
That is clear.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 20, 2013, 02:43pm
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Originally Posted by bigjohn View Post
That is a bunch of Bull!

It is clear to see most of officials observed the player. You can play your little game all you want. The kid should not have been back in the game per the memo from the DOD!
That is clear.
If it is clear than why did they not do what you suggest? Remember you said all 5 officials and did not know that they could be doing other things.

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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 20, 2013, 03:02pm
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 20, 2013, 03:10pm
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Originally Posted by bigjohn View Post
yeah, what were they all doing while he was being attended to an helped off the field?
Honestly ... except for the first few seconds, where I'm trying to determine if I need to stop the clock, I (and most official) generally see very little or nothing of the injured player. Kill play and then get out of the way. Most of these kids are pretty immediately surrounded by 6 coaches, 3 trainers, the occasional Dad, and 9 players. At most, if anything, we're trying to get players to back off. Once a players on the ground, I'm usually the last one to know what happened to a kid.

And no, no matter how loudly you might proclaim it ... this is not "bull".
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 20, 2013, 03:25pm
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Originally Posted by bigjohn View Post
You are correct, there are 5 officials that should have seen this.
If you state this as fact, then you are lying.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Fri Dec 20, 2013, 03:28pm
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Originally Posted by bigjohn View Post
yeah, what were they all doing while he was being attended to an helped off the field?
Doing what they were supposed to do.

They don't put themselves into the medical evaluation. The medical staff is now diagnosing, we don't diagnose, they do.
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