Hide Out Play in MHSAA Championship Game

[maven]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Lurking as a baseball guy ( slow this time of year) how do the other codes rule on this?

Illegal in NCAA, penalized as UNS:

9-2-2-b
"No simulated replacements or substitutions may be used to confuse opponents. No tactic associated with substitutes or the substitution process may be used to confuse opponents (Rule 3-5-2-e) (A.R. 9-2-2-I-V)."

Illegal in NFL, penalized as UNS:

5-2-11
"Using entering substitutes, legally returning players, substitutes on sidelines, or withdrawn players to confuse opponents, or lingering by players leaving the field when being replaced by a substitute, is unsportsmanlike conduct. See 12-3-1-k. "

The hideout play is illegal in football and should never be permitted by any officiating crew at any level. Period.

[bigjohn]

Video: Grand Rapids West Catholic's fake field goal touchdown, called 'Lou Lou' - MaxWire National Blog - MaxPreps


"It's a play we practice; I went over it with the officials before the game," Rohn told reporters. "I explained we'd be running it if we got the opportunity. It's a play we believe in. ... My mom passed away 25 years ago. ... We nicknamed that play after her and the kids executed it perfectly."

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Video: Grand Rapids West Catholic's fake field goal touchdown, called 'Lou Lou' - MaxWire National Blog - MaxPreps


"It's a play we practice; I went over it with the officials before the game," Rohn told reporters. "I explained we'd be running it if we got the opportunity. It's a play we believe in. ... My mom passed away 25 years ago. ... We nicknamed that play after her and the kids executed it perfectly."

You're a bit late to the party.

[bigjohn]

Why aren't these plays penalized as USC on the coach?? They should be!!

[JugglingReferee]

Classic sleeper play in Canada. Not legal.

[maven]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Why aren't these plays penalized as USC on the coach?? They should be!!

They're illegal participation. 9-6-4d IIRC

[HLin NC]

Welcome bigjohn! Drop the turkey leg and slowly back away.

[bigjohn]

He explained it to them before the game and they OK'd it! That is really sad that there are officials doing State finals with that kind of Rules knowledge.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

He explained it to them before the game and they OK'd it! That is really sad that there are officials doing State finals with that kind of Rules knowledge.

This serves as a warning, brain farts are an always lurking hidden threat to all of us, regardless of how keen we believe our "Rules knowledge" may be.

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by ajmc

This serves as a warning, brain farts are an always lurking hidden threat to all of us, regardless of how keen we believe our "Rules knowledge" may be.

Also, many coaches fails to describe the play before hand in a way that is accurate. They say one thing and the kids do something different. While all of us here agree this play should have been flagged, it doesn't necessarily mean that the coach described it exactly as it occurred.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by Suudy

Also, many coaches fails to describe the play before hand in a way that is accurate. They say one thing and the kids do something different. While all of us here agree this play should have been flagged, it doesn't necessarily mean that the coach described it exactly as it occurred.

That's entirely possible, but doesn't address the fact that the play was left to stand after it was played out on the field.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Suudy

Also, many coaches fails to describe the play before hand in a way that is accurate. They say one thing and the kids do something different. While all of us here agree this play should have been flagged, it doesn't necessarily mean that the coach described it exactly as it occurred.

1. I can't imagine how he could have described this in a way that didn't lead them to believe he was trying a hideout play of some sort.

2. The fact that the coach thinks of this as a trick play is proof that his intent was to use the substitution process to deceive the opponent into leaving a receiver wide open.

3. How it was explained is often different from how it's executed. We don't rule based on how it was explained; we rule on how it's executed. Plus, my first point above.

[bigjohn]

Where's the tee is USC. This play should be as well, just like 9-9-1


9.9.1 SITUATION B: From a field goal formation, potential kicker A1 yells, “Where’s the tee?” A2 replies, “I’ll go get it” and goes legally in motion toward his team’s sideline. Ball is snapped to A1 who throws a touchdown pass to A2. RULING: Unsportsmanlike conduct prior to snap. The ball should be declared dead and the foul enforced as a dead-ball foul. COMMENT: Football has been and always will be a game of deception and trickery involving multiple shifts, unusu- al formations and creative plays. However, actions or verbiage designed to con- fuse the defense into believing there is problem and a snap isn’t imminent is beyond the scope of sportsmanship and is illegal.

[Publius]

Who flags this play? At what point?

Couldn't this be more easily avoided by making a rule limiting substitutions (to only one or two players, e.g.,) after the ball is RFP?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Where's the tee is USC. This play should be as well, just like 9-9-1


9.9.1 SITUATION B: From a field goal formation, potential kicker A1 yells, “Where’s the tee?” A2 replies, “I’ll go get it” and goes legally in motion toward his team’s sideline. Ball is snapped to A1 who throws a touchdown pass to A2. RULING: Unsportsmanlike conduct prior to snap. The ball should be declared dead and the foul enforced as a dead-ball foul. COMMENT: Football has been and always will be a game of deception and trickery involving multiple shifts, unusu- al formations and creative plays. However, actions or verbiage designed to con- fuse the defense into believing there is problem and a snap isn’t imminent is beyond the scope of sportsmanship and is illegal.

There's a far more applicable rule:

Originally Posted by ddn

Note that it is the coach who is claiming the officials allowed it and we have no way to know what exactly was described to the officials.

Unless you are talking about all the officials claiming that this play is legal and does not fall under 9-6-4d. Apparently, one state's rules interpreter says this play is legal.

9-6-4d
ART. 4 . . . It is illegal participation:
d. To use a player, replaced player, substitute, coach, athletic trainer or other attendant in a substitution or pretended substitution to deceive opponents at or immediately before the snap or free kick.

And case play:

Originally Posted by maven

This play is properly penalized as illegal participation, 15 yards from the previous spot. The following case play is similar (the free kick is irrelevant to the ruling).

9.6.4 SITUATION B: Following a kickoff return, A1 and A2 enter the field while A3, A4 and A5 move toward the sideline. A5 stops within the 9-yard marks while A3 and A4 continue to the team box. The ball is snapped without a huddle and the quarterback throws a forward pass to A5, who has gone downfield as a wide receiver.

RULING: This play is illegal because a pretended substitution is used to deceive the opponents. The penalty of 15 yards for the illegal participation foul will be administered from the previous spot since the foul occurred at the snap. (9-6-4c)