End of Wisconsin - Arizona State game

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

You'd be hard pressed to find a more stupid comment on here. Even if this was a failure it was not massive and was 100% created by the white QB.

If you want to discuss what the U was doing, and do so rationally, fine. Otherwise, your rhetoric here is pure hyperbole.

I have discussed it rationally. The call on the field was correctly that of the play ending on a kneeldown. The QB knelt down with the ball. His knee clearly touched the ground. That's the way the officials called it on the field.

I understand where the confusion comes from, but there's a line between some confusion and allowing the defense to run off the remainder of the clock by laying on top of a ball that should be being spotted for play.

It doesn't take seven seconds to tell a player to get the hell off the ball so I can spot it. It should have resulted in a penalty for delay of game because the way it played out rewarded the defense for holding the ball hostage.

Centering the ball makes sense given that they don't have the best kicker in the world. They had plenty of time to do it. They were lined up to spike the ball to stop the clock with more than 10 seconds to go. The only reason it "failed" is because the officials failed in their duties.



To be honest, I wouldn't be anywhere near as upset by the whole situation if the officials had made any effort at all to correct it. They just ran off the field without even offering an explanation to the Wisconsin coach. That's what's most unacceptable to me.

[RMR]

Originally Posted by hbk314

To be honest, I wouldn't be anywhere near as upset by the whole situation if the officials had made any effort at all to correct it. They just ran off the field without even offering an explanation to the Wisconsin coach. That's what's most unacceptable to me.

Did you not watch APG's video?

The whitehat talked to the Wisconsin coach after the game.

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by RMR

Did you not watch APG's video?

The whitehat talked to the Wisconsin coach after the game.

He didn't offer any real explanation. At least not one that's been shared by anyone.

I guess what I would have liked to have seen happen would be a review to determine that the kneeldown was properly executed followed by the ball being spotted for play with the clock situation fixed.

I understand that seems like you're giving an advantage to the offense, but there was plenty of time on the clock, and it was the defense's actions that caused the clock to run out, and they shouldn't be allowed to benefit that way.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by hbk314

He didn't offer any real explanation. At least not one that's been shared by anyone.

And how do you know what the WH said?

Thank you for being a fan of college football.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by hbk314

He didn't offer any real explanation. At least not one that's been shared by anyone.

I guess what I would have liked to have seen happen would be a review to determine that the kneeldown was properly executed followed by the ball being spotted for play with the clock situation fixed.

I understand that seems like you're giving an advantage to the offense, but there was plenty of time on the clock, and it was the defense's actions that caused the clock to run out, and they shouldn't be allowed to benefit that way.

You do not have a clue what what explanation was given or if it was satisfactory. Even if the coach shared what he was told, that does not mean it would not be incomplete.

And you also sound like a fanboy. For one if they did a review, the other side would be highly upset if Wisconsin could set up and kick a successful field goal. There was time enough to "clock" the ball and be able to kick the ball but from the right hash and the clock would have been stopped. And if you cannot do that, then you need a better kicker from that distance if getting the ball in the middle is so important. I would think kickers practice enough from different angles. You are in the Big Ten for God's sake, not Division 3.

Again, still not outraged based on your information.

Peace

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You do not have a clue what what explanation was given or if it was satisfactory. Even if the coach shared what he was told, that does not mean it would not be incomplete.

And you also sound like a fanboy. For one if they did a review, the other side would be highly upset if Wisconsin could set up and kick a successful field goal. There was time enough to "clock" the ball and be able to kick the ball but from the right hash and the clock would have been stopped. And if you cannot do that, then you need a better kicker from that distance if getting the ball in the middle is so important. I would think kickers practice enough from different angles. You are in the Big Ten for God's sake, not Division 3.

Again, still not outraged based on your information.

Peace

None of that is relevant. It's good strategy to set up an easier kick. The ONLY reason it "failed" is because the officials let ASU hold the ball hostage without consequence.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by hbk314

None of that is relevant. It's good strategy to set up an easier kick. The ONLY reason it "failed" is because the officials let ASU hold the ball hostage without consequence.

Actually it is relevant. When you do unusual things, you have to expect that the officials are going to handle it properly. That is why officials ask before the game, "Do you have any unusual plays we need to officiating?" Of course this is not one of those plays that will be discussed, but if you do something no one has seen or you did not coach properly, then same on you. Why would the QB not down the ball, then keep the ball in his hand and give it to the official? I know that want to move fast all the time hand the ball to the officials immediately after they are tackled or downed. Sorry, this is all relevant if you want an opportunity to do what you want to do with a kick. And Wisconsin of all places had a rules change based off of their actions in the Rose Bowl. Shame on them for being so unprepared.

Peace

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Actually it is relevant. When you do unusual things, you have to expect that the officials are going to handle it properly. That is why officials ask before the game, "Do you have any unusual plays we need to officiating?" Of course this is not one of those plays that will be discussed, but if you do something no one has seen or you did not coach properly, then same on you. Why would the QB not down the ball, then keep the ball in his hand and give it to the official? I know that want to move fast all the time hand the ball to the officials immediately after they are tackled or downed. Sorry, this is all relevant if you want an opportunity to do what you want to do with a kick. And Wisconsin of all places had a rules change based off of their actions in the Rose Bowl. Shame on them for being so unprepared.

Peace

I would say it was the officials who were unprepared. Wisconsin was at the line and ready to play.

The officials then proceeded to run off the field instead of fixing their own errors. The officials might as well have been in their cars in the parking lot as the last 15 seconds ticked off the clock. That's what's unacceptable. That's why they deserve to be suspended.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by hbk314

I have discussed it rationally. The call on the field was correctly that of the play ending on a kneeldown. The QB knelt down with the ball. His knee clearly touched the ground. That's the way the officials called it on the field.

I understand where the confusion comes from, but there's a line between some confusion and allowing the defense to run off the remainder of the clock by laying on top of a ball that should be being spotted for play.

It doesn't take seven seconds to tell a player to get the hell off the ball so I can spot it. It should have resulted in a penalty for delay of game because the way it played out rewarded the defense for holding the ball hostage.

Centering the ball makes sense given that they don't have the best kicker in the world. They had plenty of time to do it. They were lined up to spike the ball to stop the clock with more than 10 seconds to go. The only reason it "failed" is because the officials failed in their duties.



To be honest, I wouldn't be anywhere near as upset by the whole situation if the officials had made any effort at all to correct it. They just ran off the field without even offering an explanation to the Wisconsin coach. That's what's most unacceptable to me.

HBK:

I am sure you realize by now that half of the guys on this site are merely apologists for officials. You are right. Guys in leadership positions all over the country agree with you. The officials erred by either (1) blowing an inadvertent whistle, or, (2) failing to set the ball or call a foul on ASU for delay, and (3) having the Umpire "hold" the snapper when no substitution occurred.

The stupidity of the Wisconsin QB in trying to center the ball does not relieve these officials from officiating the play correctly.

They made mistake(s) in a chaotic situation. I also don't think it warrants firing them.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by parepat

HBK:

I am sure you realize by now that half of the guys on this site are merely apologists for officials. You are right. Guys in leadership positions all over the country agree with you. The officials erred by either (1) blowing an inadvertent whistle, or, (2) failing to set the ball or call a foul on ASU for delay, and (3) having the Umpire "hold" the snapper when no substitution occurred.

The stupidity of the Wisconsin QB in trying to center the ball does not relieve these officials from officiating the play correctly.

They made mistake(s) in a chaotic situation. I also don't think it warrants firing them.

Not (1) - he clearly (in one angle at least, and that angle most closely mirrors R's angle) took a knee. But definitely (2) and (3), and I agree with you that player stupidity doesn't make it OK that the officials booted this one.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by parepat

HBK:

I am sure you realize by now that half of the guys on this site are merely apologists for officials. You are right. Guys in leadership positions all over the country agree with you. The officials erred by either (1) blowing an inadvertent whistle, or, (2) failing to set the ball or call a foul on ASU for delay, and (3) having the Umpire "hold" the snapper when no substitution occurred.

The stupidity of the Wisconsin QB in trying to center the ball does not relieve these officials from officiating the play correctly.

They made mistake(s) in a chaotic situation. I also don't think it warrants firing them.

No one here offered any apologetics for the officials. That's ridiculous, frankly. All that was offered was a sort of mitigation from the initial claim that these guys should be fired. IOW, "yeah they screwed up, but get a grip."

I'd be curious to find out what the prescribed remedy would have been here. The R should have been a bit more adamant about the situation. I don't see any possibility of flagging the defense here, and I doubt that's the prescription. In order to justify that, the U would have needed to ask for the ball, right? I could be wrong on this, though.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Not (1) - he clearly (in one angle at least, and that angle most closely mirrors R's angle) took a knee. But definitely (2) and (3), and I agree with you that player stupidity doesn't make it OK that the officials booted this one.

No one said it made it ok. Only that it explains it. And that it was avoidable for the players. IOW, don't do something weird that might confuse the refs, even at that level.
Oh, and we objected to the inital (and repeated) claims that they should never work again.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

No one here offered any apologetics for the officials. That's ridiculous, frankly. All that was offered was a sort of mitigation from the initial claim that these guys should be fired. IOW, "yeah they screwed up, but get a grip."

I'd be curious to find out what the prescribed remedy would have been here. The R should have been a bit more adamant about the situation. I don't see any possibility of flagging the defense here, and I doubt that's the prescription. In order to justify that, the U would have needed to ask for the ball, right? I could be wrong on this, though.



No one said it made it ok. Only that it explains it. And that it was avoidable for the players. IOW, don't do something weird that might confuse the refs, even at that level.
Oh, and we objected to the inital (and repeated) claims that they should never work again.

Here is the thing, they do not have an answer. You noticed they did not tell the Umpire to throw the offensive lineman out of the way or to figure out why the Wisconsin team with plenty of time (according to the OP) did not just kick a FG from the right hash. I have given more solutions to the situation then this guy.

Something tells me that no team in the country will instruct their QB to put the ball on the ground again.

Peace

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Here is the thing, they do not have an answer. You noticed they did not tell the Umpire to throw the offensive lineman out of the way or to figure out why the Wisconsin team with plenty of time (according to the OP) did not just kick a FG from the right hash. I have given more solutions to the situation then this guy.

Something tells me that no team in the country will instruct their QB to put the ball on the ground again.

Peace

If the officials were so confused by the play, they need to stop the clock to get things sorted out. Even after the clock hit zero, there was ample opportunity to talk it out and fix it.

The one thing that can't happen is what they let happen. The umpire was standing there socializing instead of spotting the ball for play. If he thought ASU had a right to the ball, the clock should have been stopped for change of possession. There's no excuse whatsoever for him letting the ASU player lay on the ball for 7 seconds with the clock still running. That's a delay of game.

The officials denied Wisconsin an OPPORTUNITY to win the game, effectively taking the game out of the hands of the players and deciding it themselves.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by hbk314

If the officials were so confused by the play, they need to stop the clock to get things sorted out. Even after the clock hit zero, there was ample opportunity to talk it out and fix it.

The one thing that can't happen is what they let happen. The umpire was standing there socializing instead of spotting the ball for play. If he thought ASU had a right to the ball, the clock should have been stopped for change of possession. There's no excuse whatsoever for him letting the ASU player lay on the ball for 7 seconds with the clock still running. That's a delay of game.

The officials denied Wisconsin an OPPORTUNITY to win the game, effectively taking the game out of the hands of the players and deciding it themselves.

Then if they do what you suggested and Wisconsin "clocks" the ball, and ASU fan on this site will claim the officials gave Wisconsin the game to set up field goal. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Wisconsin denied their chance to win the game. Kick the ball from the hash. If you cannot recruit a kicker to do that from HS (which has a wider angle from the hash) from that short distance, you do not deserve to win. Sorry, but it would have been easy to try a kick rather then trying to be cute. You are not going to change my mind on that point of view. They did not have to run another play to get the ball to the middle.

Peace

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Then if they do what you suggested and Wisconsin "clocks" the ball, and ASU fan on this site will claim the officials gave Wisconsin the game to set up field goal. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Wisconsin denied their chance to win the game. Kick the ball from the hash. If you cannot recruit a kicker to do that from HS (which has a wider angle from the hash) from that short distance, you do not deserve to win. Sorry, but it would have been easy to try a kick rather then trying to be cute. You are not going to change my mind on that point of view. They did not have to run another play to get the ball to the middle.

Peace

Instead they rewarded ASU for laying on a dead ball for seven seconds preventing it from being spotted.

Your second paragraph has no relevance. There's no grey area here. The officials were completely in the wrong, and it denied Wisconsin an opportunity to attempt a game winning field goal.