End of Wisconsin - Arizona State game

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by hbk314

If the officials were so confused by the play, they need to stop the clock to get things sorted out. Even after the clock hit zero, there was ample opportunity to talk it out and fix it.

The one thing that can't happen is what they let happen. The umpire was standing there socializing instead of spotting the ball for play. If he thought ASU had a right to the ball, the clock should have been stopped for change of possession. There's no excuse whatsoever for him letting the ASU player lay on the ball for 7 seconds with the clock still running. That's a delay of game.

The officials denied Wisconsin an OPPORTUNITY to win the game, effectively taking the game out of the hands of the players and deciding it themselves.

Then if they do what you suggested and Wisconsin "clocks" the ball, and ASU fan on this site will claim the officials gave Wisconsin the game to set up field goal. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Wisconsin denied their chance to win the game. Kick the ball from the hash. If you cannot recruit a kicker to do that from HS (which has a wider angle from the hash) from that short distance, you do not deserve to win. Sorry, but it would have been easy to try a kick rather then trying to be cute. You are not going to change my mind on that point of view. They did not have to run another play to get the ball to the middle.

Peace

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Then if they do what you suggested and Wisconsin "clocks" the ball, and ASU fan on this site will claim the officials gave Wisconsin the game to set up field goal. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Wisconsin denied their chance to win the game. Kick the ball from the hash. If you cannot recruit a kicker to do that from HS (which has a wider angle from the hash) from that short distance, you do not deserve to win. Sorry, but it would have been easy to try a kick rather then trying to be cute. You are not going to change my mind on that point of view. They did not have to run another play to get the ball to the middle.

Peace

Instead they rewarded ASU for laying on a dead ball for seven seconds preventing it from being spotted.

Your second paragraph has no relevance. There's no grey area here. The officials were completely in the wrong, and it denied Wisconsin an opportunity to attempt a game winning field goal.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by hbk314

and it denied Wisconsin an opportunity to attempt a game winning field goal.

Trying so hard to help you here.... but now I'm out. You don't get it and don't want to get it.

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Trying so hard to help you here.... but now I'm out. You don't get it and don't want to get it.

You've probably been the most reasonable person on this thread, but what I'm saying is true. Officials mistakes prevented Wisconsin from attempting a game-winning field goal. That's clear, in black and white.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by hbk314

You've probably been the most reasonable person on this thread, but what I'm saying is true. Officials mistakes prevented Wisconsin from attempting a game-winning field goal. That's clear, in black and white.

I'm still trying to figure out what answer you are looking for. The officials mishandled the play, the official are being disciplined over the incident. You still haven't said how you discuss this situation in your pre-game.

The officials screwed up. Now, what do you to happen? Do you think someone in this forum has the power to make you happy over what happened?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by hbk314

Instead they rewarded ASU for laying on a dead ball for seven seconds preventing it from being spotted.

Your second paragraph has no relevance. There's no grey area here. The officials were completely in the wrong, and it denied Wisconsin an opportunity to attempt a game winning field goal.

What was the remedy? It is so black and white as you say, give me the rule and the section this situation says for the officials to do something. Saying they owe the team an explanation is not in the rules.

I would wait, but if you have not given an answer yet, you are not going to give one anytime soon.

Peace

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What was the remedy? It is so black and white as you say, give me the rule and the section this situation says for the officials to do something. Saying they owe the team an explanation is not in the rules.

I would wait, but if you have not given an answer yet, you are not going to give one anytime soon.

Peace

Delay of game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by hbk314

Delay of game.

Just so you know, it has to be deliberate action to make that call, not confusion. And I bet you have never seen a Delay of Game penalty on a defensive team near the end of the game. You cannot just call this when there is confusion of the ball being loose.

Also a delay of game call would have been a penalty which included yardage and the clock would have started on the snap. Very severe and would have caused ASU fans going nuts, which is something you seem to not want to consider as well. Wisconsin does not have the right to win any game anymore then the other team.

And the Wisconsin QB never had a since of urgency until time was about to run out. He assumed everyone knew what he was doing or wanted. You know what they say when you assume?

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Just so you know, it has to be deliberate action to make that call, not confusion.

Where the umpire failed, in my opinion, was when R was signalling him that the play was over and the QB was down - and the umpire, knowing the game situation, needed to come up, tell the player to get off the ball, and then either spot the ball or flag the kid for staying on the ball. Instead, he was entertaining a conversation with another defensive lineman.

You're absolutely right that he could not call DOG given what actually happened. But it was imperative on him to get up there and tell the other guy to get off the ball. If the kid then gets off the ball, he needs to spot it and get out of the way. If he doesn't after being instructed to do so - we have DOG (it then becomes deliberate, and not confusion).

He then further compounds his error by telling the snapper to stay off the ball, with no apparent reason for doing so since there was no substitution.

[OKREF]

This situation never occurs if not for the action of the Wisconsin QB. I have watched the clip about 10 times and I still haven't seen his knee touch the ground, he just lays the ball on the ground, which leads to the ASU player thinking it is a fumble. He should have clearly taken a knee. It really looks like a fumble to me. The umpire is waiting over the ball for the Referee to mark the ball ready for play. Unfortunate ending to a game.

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by hbk314

Instead they rewarded ASU for laying on a dead ball for seven seconds preventing it from being spotted.

Your second paragraph has no relevance. There's no grey area here. The officials were completely in the wrong, and it denied Wisconsin an opportunity to attempt a game winning field goal.

It wasn't the ASU player lying on the ball that prevented quicker spotting of the ball. It was the lack of urgency by the U in finding the ball to get it spotted. This is a foul for DOG if the U is trying to get the ball and the player is not giving it to him. That's why I don't think you can fairly penalize ASU in this situation. The ASU player gave it up as soon as the U asked him. If the U felt the ASU player was intentionally hiding the ball so he couldn't find it then you may have an argument.

This was just a cluster started when the Wisconsin QB made his own mistake in judgment. Nobody is free of criticism and nobody is guilty of a catastrophic error. All parties use this as an opportunity to learn how to address it better next time and move on. It appears the officials are being addressed with sanctions through the league and it's none of our business that those sanctions are. The people who need to know are aware of what they are.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Sorry, but it would have been easy to try a kick rather then trying to be cute. You are not going to change my mind on that point of view. They did not have to run another play to get the ball to the middle.

They didn't have to play football at all, for that matter.

They had a couple downs to use. They had enough time, given anything close to normal officiating. Centering the ball is the appropriate thing to do. You're going to want to leave as close to 0 as you can get on the clock after your kick succeeds, and you want to maximize the angle for the kick to maximize the chance of its success.