End of Wisconsin - Arizona State game

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by Adam

Going to reserve judgment until I see video, but if your argument hinges on summaries from fan sites and an inconclusive still picture, you're not going to convince anyone here.

I'll be interested to see what you have to say after you see it, because I don't think there's much room for interpretation.

[Suudy]

Here's the video:

[Texas Aggie]

I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a more massive failure in game officiating.

You'd be hard pressed to find a more stupid comment on here. Even if this was a failure it was not massive and was 100% created by the white QB.

If you want to discuss what the U was doing, and do so rationally, fine. Otherwise, your rhetoric here is pure hyperbole.

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

You'd be hard pressed to find a more stupid comment on here. Even if this was a failure it was not massive and was 100% created by the white QB.

If you want to discuss what the U was doing, and do so rationally, fine. Otherwise, your rhetoric here is pure hyperbole.

I have discussed it rationally. The call on the field was correctly that of the play ending on a kneeldown. The QB knelt down with the ball. His knee clearly touched the ground. That's the way the officials called it on the field.

I understand where the confusion comes from, but there's a line between some confusion and allowing the defense to run off the remainder of the clock by laying on top of a ball that should be being spotted for play.

It doesn't take seven seconds to tell a player to get the hell off the ball so I can spot it. It should have resulted in a penalty for delay of game because the way it played out rewarded the defense for holding the ball hostage.

Centering the ball makes sense given that they don't have the best kicker in the world. They had plenty of time to do it. They were lined up to spike the ball to stop the clock with more than 10 seconds to go. The only reason it "failed" is because the officials failed in their duties.



To be honest, I wouldn't be anywhere near as upset by the whole situation if the officials had made any effort at all to correct it. They just ran off the field without even offering an explanation to the Wisconsin coach. That's what's most unacceptable to me.

[RMR]

Originally Posted by hbk314

To be honest, I wouldn't be anywhere near as upset by the whole situation if the officials had made any effort at all to correct it. They just ran off the field without even offering an explanation to the Wisconsin coach. That's what's most unacceptable to me.

Did you not watch APG's video?

The whitehat talked to the Wisconsin coach after the game.

[hbk314]

Originally Posted by RMR

Did you not watch APG's video?

The whitehat talked to the Wisconsin coach after the game.

He didn't offer any real explanation. At least not one that's been shared by anyone.

I guess what I would have liked to have seen happen would be a review to determine that the kneeldown was properly executed followed by the ball being spotted for play with the clock situation fixed.

I understand that seems like you're giving an advantage to the offense, but there was plenty of time on the clock, and it was the defense's actions that caused the clock to run out, and they shouldn't be allowed to benefit that way.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by hbk314

He didn't offer any real explanation. At least not one that's been shared by anyone.

And how do you know what the WH said?

Thank you for being a fan of college football.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by hbk314

He didn't offer any real explanation. At least not one that's been shared by anyone.

I guess what I would have liked to have seen happen would be a review to determine that the kneeldown was properly executed followed by the ball being spotted for play with the clock situation fixed.

I understand that seems like you're giving an advantage to the offense, but there was plenty of time on the clock, and it was the defense's actions that caused the clock to run out, and they shouldn't be allowed to benefit that way.

You do not have a clue what what explanation was given or if it was satisfactory. Even if the coach shared what he was told, that does not mean it would not be incomplete.

And you also sound like a fanboy. For one if they did a review, the other side would be highly upset if Wisconsin could set up and kick a successful field goal. There was time enough to "clock" the ball and be able to kick the ball but from the right hash and the clock would have been stopped. And if you cannot do that, then you need a better kicker from that distance if getting the ball in the middle is so important. I would think kickers practice enough from different angles. You are in the Big Ten for God's sake, not Division 3.

Again, still not outraged based on your information.

Peace

[parepat]

Originally Posted by hbk314

I have discussed it rationally. The call on the field was correctly that of the play ending on a kneeldown. The QB knelt down with the ball. His knee clearly touched the ground. That's the way the officials called it on the field.

I understand where the confusion comes from, but there's a line between some confusion and allowing the defense to run off the remainder of the clock by laying on top of a ball that should be being spotted for play.

It doesn't take seven seconds to tell a player to get the hell off the ball so I can spot it. It should have resulted in a penalty for delay of game because the way it played out rewarded the defense for holding the ball hostage.

Centering the ball makes sense given that they don't have the best kicker in the world. They had plenty of time to do it. They were lined up to spike the ball to stop the clock with more than 10 seconds to go. The only reason it "failed" is because the officials failed in their duties.



To be honest, I wouldn't be anywhere near as upset by the whole situation if the officials had made any effort at all to correct it. They just ran off the field without even offering an explanation to the Wisconsin coach. That's what's most unacceptable to me.

HBK:

I am sure you realize by now that half of the guys on this site are merely apologists for officials. You are right. Guys in leadership positions all over the country agree with you. The officials erred by either (1) blowing an inadvertent whistle, or, (2) failing to set the ball or call a foul on ASU for delay, and (3) having the Umpire "hold" the snapper when no substitution occurred.

The stupidity of the Wisconsin QB in trying to center the ball does not relieve these officials from officiating the play correctly.

They made mistake(s) in a chaotic situation. I also don't think it warrants firing them.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by parepat

HBK:

I am sure you realize by now that half of the guys on this site are merely apologists for officials. You are right. Guys in leadership positions all over the country agree with you. The officials erred by either (1) blowing an inadvertent whistle, or, (2) failing to set the ball or call a foul on ASU for delay, and (3) having the Umpire "hold" the snapper when no substitution occurred.

The stupidity of the Wisconsin QB in trying to center the ball does not relieve these officials from officiating the play correctly.

They made mistake(s) in a chaotic situation. I also don't think it warrants firing them.

Not (1) - he clearly (in one angle at least, and that angle most closely mirrors R's angle) took a knee. But definitely (2) and (3), and I agree with you that player stupidity doesn't make it OK that the officials booted this one.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by parepat

HBK:

I am sure you realize by now that half of the guys on this site are merely apologists for officials. You are right. Guys in leadership positions all over the country agree with you. The officials erred by either (1) blowing an inadvertent whistle, or, (2) failing to set the ball or call a foul on ASU for delay, and (3) having the Umpire "hold" the snapper when no substitution occurred.

The stupidity of the Wisconsin QB in trying to center the ball does not relieve these officials from officiating the play correctly.

They made mistake(s) in a chaotic situation. I also don't think it warrants firing them.

No one here offered any apologetics for the officials. That's ridiculous, frankly. All that was offered was a sort of mitigation from the initial claim that these guys should be fired. IOW, "yeah they screwed up, but get a grip."

I'd be curious to find out what the prescribed remedy would have been here. The R should have been a bit more adamant about the situation. I don't see any possibility of flagging the defense here, and I doubt that's the prescription. In order to justify that, the U would have needed to ask for the ball, right? I could be wrong on this, though.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Not (1) - he clearly (in one angle at least, and that angle most closely mirrors R's angle) took a knee. But definitely (2) and (3), and I agree with you that player stupidity doesn't make it OK that the officials booted this one.

No one said it made it ok. Only that it explains it. And that it was avoidable for the players. IOW, don't do something weird that might confuse the refs, even at that level.
Oh, and we objected to the inital (and repeated) claims that they should never work again.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Adam

No one here offered any apologetics for the officials. That's ridiculous, frankly. All that was offered was a sort of mitigation from the initial claim that these guys should be fired. IOW, "yeah they screwed up, but get a grip."

I'd be curious to find out what the prescribed remedy would have been here. The R should have been a bit more adamant about the situation. I don't see any possibility of flagging the defense here, and I doubt that's the prescription. In order to justify that, the U would have needed to ask for the ball, right? I could be wrong on this, though.



No one said it made it ok. Only that it explains it. And that it was avoidable for the players. IOW, don't do something weird that might confuse the refs, even at that level.
Oh, and we objected to the inital (and repeated) claims that they should never work again.

Here is the thing, they do not have an answer. You noticed they did not tell the Umpire to throw the offensive lineman out of the way or to figure out why the Wisconsin team with plenty of time (according to the OP) did not just kick a FG from the right hash. I have given more solutions to the situation then this guy.

Something tells me that no team in the country will instruct their QB to put the ball on the ground again.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'd be curious to find out what the prescribed remedy would have been here. The R should have been a bit more adamant about the situation. I don't see any possibility of flagging the defense here, and I doubt that's the prescription. In order to justify that, the U would have needed to ask for the ball, right? I could be wrong on this, though.

Actually, I don't think flagging the defense for laying on the ball once the umpire told him to get off would have been inappropriate. Of course, this would have required some awareness of the clock on the umpire's part - something that was clearly not there since he felt it was a great opportunity to chat up the other defensive player rather than getting the ball.

No one said it made it ok. Only that it explains it. And that it was avoidable for the players. IOW, don't do something weird that might confuse the refs, even at that level.

It's not always possible to read what Jeff really does mean ... but several of his comments came across (to me at least) as saying the QB's idiocy DID make it OK that the officials screwed it up.

Oh, and we objected to the inital (and repeated) claims that they should never work again.

I do too. Right with you on that one.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by hbk314

I'll be interested to see what you have to say after you see it, because I don't think there's much room for interpretation.

1. It was an epically stupid play for the QB.
2. The video is completely inconclusive on whether or not his knee was down.
3. The R points down, but he seems to be the only one besides the QB who thought the QB was down.
4. The R seems to be trying to tell the U to put the ball down.
5. The U should have killed the clock if he thought B had recovered a fumble.
6. The U doesn't seem to know what the play result was.
7. By the time the U puts the ball down, there is not enough time to spike ball successfully.
8. What an idiotic play by the QB.