Tobacco

[Forksref]

We had a L last night tell our whitehat that he suspected an assistant coach was chewing tobacco. After the game the entire crew talked to the head coach and relayed the L's suspicions. In the course of that conversation, the head coach said that the assistant had been warned before and that he would probably fire him. That looks like confirmation of what the L suspected. I told the WH to report the suspicion to the state and include the coach's comments as well as report it to the AD.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Forksref

We had a L last night tell our whitehat that he suspected an assistant coach was chewing tobacco. After the game the entire crew talked to the head coach and relayed the L's suspicions. In the course of that conversation, the head coach said that the assistant had been warned before and that he would probably fire him. That looks like confirmation of what the L suspected. I told the WH to report the suspicion to the state and include the coach's comments as well as report it to the AD.

IMO, this isn't anything we have any business being involved in. Whether a man chooses to use tobacco or not is his decision. Whether he's allowed to use it around students is an issue for his employer, not an official in a football game.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

IMO, this isn't anything we have any business being involved in. Whether a man chooses to use tobacco or not is his decision. Whether he's allowed to use it around students is an issue for his employer, not an official in a football game.

Well it is illegal to use so I am not totally in agreement with that part. His employment is not our issue, but if he is using it on a field or in a sport that does not allow it, that is our business. Not my business to go looking for, but if we notice it yes we can and have the right to penalize such action. I just remember when NCAA baseball made it clear if it was used the coach would be ejected if anyone on the team did so. And also I am sure some states have asked their officials to enforce or report these things as well. It is illegal in our state for example to even use tobacco products on any school campus, forget what the rules say to do. An adult that is a coach should know better.

Peace

[bigjohn]

ART. 1 . . . No coach, substitute, athletic trainer or other team attendant shall
act in an unsportsmanlike manner once the game officials assume authority for
the contest. Examples are, but not limited to:



j. Using tobacco or smokeless tobacco.
k. Being outside the team box, but not on the field. (See 9-8-3)
l. A substitute leaving the team box during a fight.


So pick and choose the ones you enforce??

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... if we notice it yes we can and have the right to penalize such action.

I'm well aware of what the rule is. What I'm saying is that IMO it should not be a game rule.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

...It is illegal in our state for example to even use tobacco products on any school campus, forget what the rules say to do.

Thank you for making my point. It has nothing to do with the game of football or any other game. It's a school issue, not a game issue.

Weapons are not allowed on school campuses. Should that be a game rule as well? Do we need the frisk everybody on the sideline?

Originally Posted by bigjohn

ART. 1 . . . No coach, substitute, athletic trainer or other team attendant shall act in an unsportsmanlike manner once the game officials assume authority for the contest. Examples are, but not limited to:

j. Using tobacco or smokeless tobacco.
k. Being outside the team box, but not on the field. (See 9-8-3)
l. A substitute leaving the team box during a fight.

So pick and choose the ones you enforce??

Where did I say I wouldn't enforce it? I said IMO this is not something an official should have to deal with. It should not be a rule.

It's not unsportsmanlike to put a dip of snuff inside your front lip. I don't do it nor advocate it but if you do, that's your business and the business of your employer.

BTW John, you might not have noticed but K and J are safety rules, not moral or ethical issues as is whether one chooses to use tobacco or not. You're a coach. If you have a fellow coach who uses tobacco, you're the one who should be up his a$$ about it, not me.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I'm well aware of what the rule is. What I'm saying is that IMO it should not be a game rule.

It is ridiculous. It's not as if it gives any tactical advantage or is a safety issue, and it's not likely to arouse ill feeling in others. It's a whole new category of rulesmaking as concerns football.

[HLin NC]

Why did the "entire crew" feel the need to meet with a HC AFTER a game about an AC using dip?

I understand the concern. I understand telling the HC. I know it's against the rules. But that seems a bit overkill to me. In these parts, we're running/trotting to the get away car. If the HC wasn't told or the AC wasn't flagged during the game, I think that is something R can report later.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Thank you for making my point. It has nothing to do with the game of football or any other game. It's a school issue, not a game issue.

Weapons are not allowed on school campuses. Should that be a game rule as well? Do we need the frisk everybody on the sideline?

I'm simply saying the rule should be enforced appropriately if seen. I would make the coach aware what I suspected just like I would with other preventative thing if it was not obvious.

And I think your weapon point is a straw man argument. We are not talking about weapons, we are talking about tobacco that is outlawed by rule.

I know you live around Tobacco Road, but let us not be ridiculous.

Peace

[bigjohn]

Towel color and other uniform adornments are not safety issue or really have an effect on the game!

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

And I think your weapon point is a straw man argument. We are not talking about weapons, we are talking about tobacco that is outlawed by rule.

Thanks for making my point again. Both are outlawed on campus. Neither should be something a game official has to deal with.

Think whatever you want to. It's the same principle.

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Towel color and other uniform adornments are not safety issue or really have an effect on the game!

Nor are they something officials should have to deal with.

[JRutledge]

All I am saying Tony is that there is a rule in place. I have no problem with how the crew handled this unless there was some directive to handle it differently. Not sure what point you are trying to make? This is mostly a local issue that if happened in my area I would see as handled properly. I do agree the entire crew did not need to be there, but then again that might have been one of those situations where the crew left together and the coach saw them all and that is when it was addressed.

Peace

[Forksref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

IMO, this isn't anything we have any business being involved in. Whether a man chooses to use tobacco or not is his decision. Whether he's allowed to use it around students is an issue for his employer, not an official in a football game.

9-8-1j Any other rules you choose to ignore?

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Towel color and other uniform adornments are not safety issue or really have an effect on the game!

That's true, and those issues are nuts & recent too. Why can't the rules makers just pay att'n to the game?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Forksref

9-8-1j Any other rules you choose to ignore?

Where the hell did I say I ignore the rule?

I said that IMO it should not be a game rule. We have no business telling a grown man he cannot use tobacco. If it's an issue to use it around kids, then that's an issue for his employer, not for a football official.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not sure what point you are trying to make?

I've been very clear on my point. But I'll try to explain it to you again.

I do not think it should be a rule.

[jTheUmp]

I actually had to eject a pitcher from an 18U baseball game over the summer... he had a can of chew in his back pocket while he was pitching. No way I could ignore that.

Personally, I think the "alert the head coach of suspicions, report to the state office after the game" route is probably the best one to take in this situation... unless the AC made it such that I had no choice but to address the issue. (ie: spitting tobacco juice where I could see him or actually putting a dip in his mouth in front of me).