Out of bounds mechanics

[gr8fuldiver]

I am a new official and have had trouble with this mechanic. I have asked many in my association, and have had almost as many different interpretations of how to signal and if I stop or wind the clock. (When I ask about first down or others, I am asking about if he has obviously crossed the first down threshold or was tackled/pushed out of bounds before reaching it. I hope you can provide the mechanics of both situations in your answers).

1. If the runner is initially down inbounds very close to the line and winds up out of bounds , and I deem his forward motion was NOT stopped before he was down, what and how do I signal (both first down and others please)?

2. If the runner is forced out of bounds before he is down or runs out on his own, what and how do I signal (both first down and others please)?

3. If I deem the runners forward momentum has stopped BEFORE he is out of bounds (I.E. he has stopped moving forward and is pushed backwards out of bounds), what and how do I signal (both first down and others please)? I think I have this one....wouldn't you wind the clock then stop it because he went out of bounds?

I have been told by some (for example on the last question) NOT to stop the clock because he was stopped in bounds, that I SHOULD stop the clock because he was stopped inbounds but went out, and still others have told me toward the end of the game, just let the clock run so "We can all go home"!! That is why I'm so confused....many different answers to the same questions....please help.


I do apologize that this is so long and wordy, but I really want to get it right....the kids deserve it. If any veteran officials want to add me as a "friend" and take me under their wing, I sure would appreciate it. Been doing baseball for over 30 years, so I know I can learn this....just want to do it right!!

God bless....

Paul

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by gr8fuldiver

I am a new official and have had trouble with this mechanic. I have asked many in my association, and have had almost as many different interpretations of how to signal and if I stop or wind the clock. (When I ask about first down or others, I am asking about if he has obviously crossed the first down threshold or was tackled/pushed out of bounds before reaching it. I hope you can provide the mechanics of both situations in your answers).

1. If the runner is initially down inbounds very close to the line and winds up out of bounds , and I deem his forward motion was NOT stopped before he was down, what and how do I signal (both first down and others please)?

2. If the runner is forced out of bounds before he is down or runs out on his own, what and how do I signal (both first down and others please)?

3. If I deem the runners forward momentum has stopped BEFORE he is out of bounds (I.E. he has stopped moving forward and is pushed backwards out of bounds), what and how do I signal (both first down and others please)? I think I have this one....wouldn't you wind the clock then stop it because he went out of bounds?

I have been told by some (for example on the last question) NOT to stop the clock because he was stopped in bounds, that I SHOULD stop the clock because he was stopped inbounds but went out, and still others have told me toward the end of the game, just let the clock run so "We can all go home"!! That is why I'm so confused....many different answers to the same questions....please help.


I do apologize that this is so long and wordy, but I really want to get it right....the kids deserve it.

God bless....

Paul

1. You answered your own question. You said he was down before going out of bounds. Wind the clock, then stop the clock if it is a first down. Clock will start on ready for play .

2. Simply just stop the clock.

3. If forward progress was stopped prior to going out of bounds, wind the clock, then stop for a first down. Going out of bounds here is irrelevant, since you deemed forward progress was stopped inbounds. Clock will start on ready for play.

[gr8fuldiver]

I sure appreciate your help. If I may, I'd like to get some clarification on your replies:

1. In question one, you answered since he was out of bounds, I simply wind the clock, then stop it if he has a first down....if he DOESN'T, do I simply wind the clock? I guess where I'm having my problem is thinking since someone is out of bounds, the clock should stop every time??

2. I'm guessing in question two, I would just stop the clock and let the white hat know he was stopped in bounds?

3. In your answer for three, what do I do if it is NOT a first down?

As I said, I know these might be "easy" questions, but I have received so many different answers, I'm just confused. Once again, my main thing is when do I stop the clock and when do I wind it? I always thought if he is out of bounds, I would ALWAYS stop the clock, even for a few seconds as the player(s) are not in the field of play.

Thanks buddy for all your help....be patient, I'm trying lol.

Paul

[w_sohl]

• Runner runs for a first down and forward progress is stopped in bounds: Wind the clock to let everyone know he was in bounds, Kill the clock for the first down and let your white hat know he was stopped in bounds so the clock will start on ready.
• Runner runs for a first down and forward momentum continues out of bounds: Kill the clock, let your white hat know he was OOB and the clock will start on the snap.
• Runner is short of the first down and forward progress is stopped obviously in bounds: Just signal the next down and mark the end of the run.
• Runner is short of the first down and forward progress is stopped near the sideline but in bounds: You can wind the clock, though it isn't necessary because if you are not killing it, it shouldn't stop. When it is real close you might wind it so everyone knows right away that progress stopped in bounds. This is especially important late in a tight ball game as the coaches are trying to decide on a play as fast as possible. Also, they want to know if a TO is necessary.
• Runner is short of the first down and forward progress is stopped OOB: Kill the clock.

[JKinATL29]

Originally Posted by gr8fuldiver

1. If the runner is initially down inbounds very close to the line and winds up out of bounds , and I deem his forward motion was NOT stopped before he was down, what and how do I signal (both first down and others please)?

2. If the runner is forced out of bounds before he is down or runs out on his own, what and how do I signal (both first down and others please)?

3. If I deem the runners forward momentum has stopped BEFORE he is out of bounds (I.E. he has stopped moving forward and is pushed backwards out of bounds), what and how do I signal (both first down and others please)? I think I have this one....wouldn't you wind the clock then stop it because he went out of bounds?

1. You have him down inbounds...wind the clock to communicate this to your crew and coaches (at least the ones paying attention). If he isn't past the line to gain, no other signal is needed. If it is a first down, follow the winding signal by stopping the clock. This signifies that the clock is stopped only for the first down and will roll again on the RFP. You will also want to verbally (or otherwise, discuss during pregame) explain this to the R as he is preparing to blow the RFP.

2. You have him out of bounds...simply stop the clock. The clock will not start until the snap, first down or not.

3. If you have ruled his forward progress to be down inbounds, same as #1.

[Rich]

The "wind then stop" mechanic was removed from the NFHS Officials Manual prior to last season. The proper mechanic now is:

Stop the clock if:

(1) The runner is inbounds and it's a first down
(2) The runner is out of bounds

Communicate the clock status to the referee and the rest of the crew using signals the crew has agreed to beforehand.

Run the clock if it's not a first down and:

(1) The runner was tackled inbounds or
(2) The runner's progress was stopped inbounds

The wind then stop was eliminated because of the delay between the wind and the stop. Stop the clock, tell the R and the rest of the crew the clock is live on the RFP.

Keep in mind that these things are *all* local. If you're instructed to wind and then stop in your area, do it. It's not the book mechanic anymore, though.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

The "wind then stop" mechanic was removed from the NFHS Officials Manual prior to last season. The proper mechanic now is:

Stop the clock if:

(1) The runner is inbounds and it's a first down
(2) The runner is out of bounds

Communicate the clock status to the referee and the rest of the crew using signals the crew has agreed to beforehand.

Run the clock if it's not a first down and:

(1) The runner was tackled inbounds or
(2) The runner's progress was stopped inbounds

This is what we're doing this year. We have signals to give the R from the wing, but they do not include winding the clock before stopping it.

[MD Longhorn]

No more double signals!!!!

If he's out of bounds OR if it's a first down - stop the clock.
If he's in bounds and it's not a first down - do nothing.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

No more double signals!!!!

If he's out of bounds OR if it's a first down - stop the clock.
If he's in bounds and it's not a first down - do nothing.

That might lead to some of the confusion Rich experienced and described in his other post -- the ECO is not sure whether the R will be starting the clock on the RFP so doesn't bother to look for the signal -- especially if the ECO is not aware of the mechanics change.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

That might lead to some of the confusion Rich experienced and described in his other post -- the ECO is not sure whether the R will be starting the clock on the RFP so doesn't bother to look for the signal -- especially if the ECO is not aware of the mechanics change.

That is why you have a conversation with the ECO before the game. It is the expected standard to talk to them to not only find out what they know, but to explain rules and situations that might apply. And even with the mechanics change, people still wind the clock then stop it. I actually thought this was a silly change as you are giving information to your crew as much as the clock guy.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

That might lead to some of the confusion Rich experienced and described in his other post -- the ECO is not sure whether the R will be starting the clock on the RFP so doesn't bother to look for the signal -- especially if the ECO is not aware of the mechanics change.

We should be talking with him beforehand... but just as in officiating any other sport - the possibility that someone else might not do their job correctly is not a good reason for us to do our jobs incorrectly.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

That is why you have a conversation with the ECO before the game. It is the expected standard to talk to them to not only find out what they know, but to explain rules and situations that might apply. And even with the mechanics change, people still wind the clock then stop it. I actually thought this was a silly change as you are giving information to your crew as much as the clock guy.

Peace

I think it's a good change. If the ECO turns away from the wing when he winds, then what?

If there's little time in the game and the "wind, then stop" results in a delay of stopping the clock for an extra second or two, then what?

I'm really working with my wings to eliminate the extra mechanic -- I'm the one that starts the clock anyway, so why is it needed if they're communicating with us? Our guys will kill the clock and then immediately signal to me and the crew that we're winding on the RFP. Really, this makes the most sense as a mechanic -- we stop the clock and THEN tell everyone that it will wind at the RFP.

[Forksref]

We don't wind the clock if it is a first down. We tell the ECO to simply stop or start on our signals. If it is near the sideline and not a first down we may wind it to indicate he is not out of bounds. Personal preference here.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

If he's in bounds and it's not a first down - do nothing.

Slight quibble. If he's down in bounds and it is close to the sideline, wind it.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

I think it's a good change. If the ECO turns away from the wing when he winds, then what?

If there's little time in the game and the "wind, then stop" results in a delay of stopping the clock for an extra second or two, then what?

I'm really working with my wings to eliminate the extra mechanic -- I'm the one that starts the clock anyway, so why is it needed if they're communicating with us? Our guys will kill the clock and then immediately signal to me and the crew that we're winding on the RFP. Really, this makes the most sense as a mechanic -- we stop the clock and THEN tell everyone that it will wind at the RFP.

My main problem is that if you have a close play near the sideline, you should wind the clock no matter what unless you clearly know this is a first down by many yards. Now you have added another thought process to if it is or is not a first down if it is close.

I guess I do not see the big deal why it would be considered an "extra mechanic" when you are just officiating the play and giving what you have called. I can see coaches not knowing the clock is going to run on the RFP and have had them already be surprised when a player was not out of bounds. After all this change was for the coaches, not from the officials.

Peace