Concussion Rule in Ohio

[parepat]

great idea to have people who are not medical professionals, nor familiar with the behaviors of the players making decisions about excluding them from the game. "I don't know your kid, so I don't know how he normally acts. I also, am not a medical professional, but I think he can't play 10% of his season. (1 game) Oh, and by the way, the people that do know your kid (parent, coach) and the medical professionals (doctor, trainer) can do nothing about it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by parepat

great idea to have people who are not medical professionals, nor familiar with the behaviors of the players making decisions about excluding them from the game. "I don't know your kid, so I don't know how he normally acts. I also, am not a medical professional, but I think he can't play 10% of his season. (1 game) Oh, and by the way, the people that do know your kid (parent, coach) and the medical professionals (doctor, trainer) can do nothing about it.

This opens us up to litigation, IMO. If any of us are slow to pull the trigger, we'll be criticized and maybe sued. If we're quick to pull the trigger, we'll be criticized and maybe even sued.

[scrounge]

Originally Posted by Adam

This opens us up to litigation, IMO. If any of us are slow to pull the trigger, we'll be criticized and maybe sued. If we're quick to pull the trigger, we'll be criticized and maybe even sued.

I don't really think this is an issue, at least in Ohio. No one's asking officials to diagnose anything - all the law says is that if you see signs or symptoms that *may* be consistent with a concussion, hold them out and have them see a qualified medical professional who can clear them. Not same day, admittedly, but it can be as soon as the next day. And the law explicitly offers immunity from liability unless there is willful or wanton misconduct. Doesn't mean you won't get sued but it's a pretty high barrier to beat for judgment.

[CT1]

In our state, we are to remove the player & tell the head coach that we observed signs of possible concussion. After that, it's completely out of our hands.

[parepat]

Of all the following people: parent, doctor, trainer or coach, the official is the least appropriate to decide whether a player can play due to head injury. This might be the single most ridiculous piece of legislation I have ever read. If I am wise enough to overrule a brain surgeon, why am I only making sixty bucks a game?

[JRutledge]

All our state does is ask us to remove players from the game if they have concussion like symptoms. After that, a Medial Health Care Professional makes an evaluation. And those have to be designated by schools by law. And if they feel they do not have issues, they can allow them back in the game. We basically stay out of it other then report the incidents that take place to the State and the schools have to deal with the fall out. BTW, this is also a state law that the IHSA helped come up with so the schools take on the responsiblity legally more then we do.

It must be noted that many concussion symptoms are also symptoms of other things as well. I think Ohio is going to have a lot of kids taken out of games for other symptoms that clearly could be other things if this is on the officials to decide who comes out of the game.

Peace

[maven]

Originally Posted by parepat

Of all the following people: parent, doctor, trainer or coach, the official is the least appropriate to decide whether a player can play due to head injury.

Least appropriate in what respect? All the other people you mention are partial and have a rooting interest in keeping a potentially injured player in the game. The only impartial people on the field are the officials, and the law requires them to err on the side of safety.

That said, I don't like its implementation either. I don't want to defend a bad law, but the problem with it is not its rationale.

As for lawsuits, meh. Ohio's law doesn't increase our risk exposure significantly. When a player gets injured and the parents decide to sue, the lawyers will name every adult within reach: coaches, school administrators, the school board, the state athletic association, the officials on the field, and anyone else they can think of. You throw that stuff at everyone and see where it might stick.

[parepat]

Originally Posted by maven

Least appropriate in what respect? All the other people you mention are partial and have a rooting interest in keeping a potentially injured player in the game. The only impartial people on the field are the officials, and the law requires them to err on the side of safety.

That said, I don't like its implementation either. I don't want to defend a bad law, but the problem with it is not its rationale.

As for lawsuits, meh. Ohio's law doesn't increase our risk exposure significantly. When a player gets injured and the parents decide to sue, the lawyers will name every adult within reach: coaches, school administrators, the school board, the state athletic association, the officials on the field, and anyone else they can think of. You throw that stuff at everyone and see where it might stick.

Least appropriate in that we do not know the kid, so we don't have a baseline of knowledge on what "unusual" behavior is. Parents and coaches do have this knowledge. We have not received medical training similar to a trainer or doctor.

The underlying theme of this law is that we can't trust parents, coaches, trainers or doctors to protect our kids; and, therefore, we will put the duty on officials who have no expertise in either (a) the child (b) or concussion.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by scrounge

I don't really think this is an issue, at least in Ohio. No one's asking officials to diagnose anything - all the law says is that if you see signs or symptoms that *may* be consistent with a concussion, hold them out and have them see a qualified medical professional who can clear them. Not same day, admittedly, but it can be as soon as the next day. And the law explicitly offers immunity from liability unless there is willful or wanton misconduct. Doesn't mean you won't get sued but it's a pretty high barrier to beat for judgment.

Maybe, but in about five years, I expect there to be some lawsuits (maybe even some successful ones).

[parepat]

Originally Posted by scrounge

I don't really think this is an issue, at least in Ohio. No one's asking officials to diagnose anything - all the law says is that if you see signs or symptoms that *may* be consistent with a concussion, hold them out and have them see a qualified medical professional who can clear them. Not same day, admittedly, but it can be as soon as the next day. And the law explicitly offers immunity from liability unless there is willful or wanton misconduct. Doesn't mean you won't get sued but it's a pretty high barrier to beat for judgment.

And there is the rub. Let's take the opinion of the guy who watched a video over the guy who graduated from medical school.

[bigjohn]

I guess this is not enforced in State Finals. Mentor QB hit hard in helmet, left very groggy, returned and finished the game.

Mentor 3-2 at Moeller14 5-C. Krizancic rush for 12 yards to the MOELLER2, 1ST DOWN MENTOR (6-Sam Hubhard).
Mentor 1-G at Moeller02 5-C. Krizancic rush for 1 yard to the MOELLER1 (93-Robby Pohlman).
Mentor 2-G at Moeller01 Timeout Mentor, clock 00:52.
Mentor 2-G at Moeller01 40-Eddie Daugherty at QB for Mentor.
Mentor 2-G at Moeller01 44-Alex Mathews rush for loss of 2 yards to the MOELLER3 (11-Chalmer Frueauf;44-Kole Shade).
Mentor 3-G at Moeller03 5-C. Krizancic at QB for Mentor.
Mentor 3-G at Moeller03 5-C. Krizancic pass complete to 40-Eddie Daugherty for 3 yards to the MOELLER0, TOUCHDOWN, clock 00:44.
39-Mike Muzic kick attempt good.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

I guess this is not enforced in State Finals. Mentor QB hit hard in helmet, left very groggy, returned and finished the game.

Mentor 3-2 at Moeller14 5-C. Krizancic rush for 12 yards to the MOELLER2, 1ST DOWN MENTOR (6-Sam Hubhard).
Mentor 1-G at Moeller02 5-C. Krizancic rush for 1 yard to the MOELLER1 (93-Robby Pohlman).
Mentor 2-G at Moeller01 Timeout Mentor, clock 00:52.
Mentor 2-G at Moeller01 40-Eddie Daugherty at QB for Mentor.
Mentor 2-G at Moeller01 44-Alex Mathews rush for loss of 2 yards to the MOELLER3 (11-Chalmer Frueauf;44-Kole Shade).
Mentor 3-G at Moeller03 5-C. Krizancic at QB for Mentor.
Mentor 3-G at Moeller03 5-C. Krizancic pass complete to 40-Eddie Daugherty for 3 yards to the MOELLER0, TOUCHDOWN, clock 00:44.
39-Mike Muzic kick attempt good.

Yawn.....

You weren't on the field, so all you are doing is guessing..... It just might be the correct guess, but it's still a guess.

[HLin NC]

And you know he was very groggy by......a) being there talking to him?
b) Heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend?
c) Super duper Aquaman-like telepathic communication?
d) Watched it on STO and heard an announcer in the booth tell you on your telly.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by parepat

great idea to have people who are not medical professionals, nor familiar with the behaviors of the players making decisions about excluding them from the game. "I don't know your kid, so I don't know how he normally acts. I also, am not a medical professional, but I think he can't play 10% of his season. (1 game) Oh, and by the way, the people that do know your kid (yparent, coach) and the medical professionals (doctor, trainer) can do nothing about it.

If a player's normal demeanor is slurred speech, disoriented, confused, etc........then he has no business being out there in the first place. In the unlikely event that this is normal, (it's not normal) the coach should alert us to this prior to the game.