SC vs Mich

[JRutledge]

We pretty much only measure when it is critical in the game or the possession. And it does not slow the game down. Teams slow the game down with their play selection. The pace of the game is set mostly by the teams and maybe the Referee and the crew getting the ball back to the spot, which we have done very well. I just do not get this attitude of measurements. What are you going to add 10 minutes to the game and that is a bad thing if you did? To me this is like basketball officials that complain about the number of fouls they have to call rather than worrying about more pressing issues, like preventing things that could escalate into things like a fight, but we saved 10 minutes.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We pretty much only measure when it is critical in the game or the possession. And it does not slow the game down. Teams slow the game down with their play selection. The pace of the game is set mostly by the teams and maybe the Referee and the crew getting the ball back to the spot, which we have done very well. I just do not get this attitude of measurements. What are you going to add 10 minutes to the game and that is a bad thing if you did? To me this is like basketball officials that complain about the number of fouls they have to call rather than worrying about more pressing issues, like preventing things that could escalate into things like a fight, but we saved 10 minutes.

Peace

Non-sequitir much?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

Non-sequitir much?

Then why does it matter how much you measure if it tells everyone, "The spot was short." Instead of having a coach (and we know coaches complain) that you did not check to make sure? The only thing I can come up with is the time it adds.

If that is not the case, then tell me why it is not the case?

Peace

[ajmc]

What's worked for me, is declaring a 1st down only when I am absolutely certain that a 1st down has been made. If there is the slightest doubt, I'll measure. The same hold true for the Linejudge. If he's absolutely sure it's a first down, he say so, otherwise he'll defer and suggest I take a look.

So, if there is any doubt, we'll measure. When there is no doubt, we declare 1st down and off we go. If there is any request after declaring 1st down, the response is simply, "Thank you, but we don't need one."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ajmc

What's worked for me, is declaring a 1st down only when I am absolutely certain that a 1st down has been made. If there is the slightest doubt, I'll measure. The same hold true for the Linejudge. If he's absolutely sure it's a first down, he say so, otherwise he'll defer and suggest I take a look.

So, if there is any doubt, we'll measure. When there is no doubt, we declare 1st down and off we go. If there is any request after declaring 1st down, the response is simply, "Thank you, but we don't need one."

That is exactly our philosophy. When in doubt we measure. Also the LJ is not always the one with the spot, so it is not the LJ's fault if we are close.

Peace

[JasonTX]

Not to continue beating the horse, but in terms of keeping the game moving. I had a game where we couldn't tell if it was a first or if it was short so we were going to measure. The offense was moving in good rythm. As soon as we stopped the clock the coach "informed" us that it was short. He didn't care that it was going to be 3rd down if it was indeed short. He just wanted us to keep the game going without stopping to measure. He was confident his offense could get the 1st down.

I suppose we have just been lucky that we haven't had many close ones. They have all been obviously short or obviously a first down. Watching the NFL you will be lucky to see one measurement in all games that weekend.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

Not to continue beating the horse, but in terms of keeping the game moving. I had a game where we couldn't tell if it was a first or if it was short so we were going to measure. The offense was moving in good rythm. As soon as we stopped the clock the coach "informed" us that it was short. He didn't care that it was going to be 3rd down if it was indeed short. He just wanted us to keep the game going without stopping to measure. He was confident his offense could get the 1st down.

I suppose we have just been lucky that we haven't had many close ones. They have all been obviously short or obviously a first down. Watching the NFL you will be lucky to see one measurement in all games that weekend.

You and I both know that isn't luck. It's awareness of the LTG and spotting the ball appropriately.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

Not to continue beating the horse, but in terms of keeping the game moving. I had a game where we couldn't tell if it was a first or if it was short so we were going to measure. The offense was moving in good rythm. As soon as we stopped the clock the coach "informed" us that it was short. He didn't care that it was going to be 3rd down if it was indeed short. He just wanted us to keep the game going without stopping to measure. He was confident his offense could get the 1st down.

I suppose we have just been lucky that we haven't had many close ones. They have all been obviously short or obviously a first down. Watching the NFL you will be lucky to see one measurement in all games that weekend.

I don't blame the coach depending the down. In the Giant/Cowboy game, it took forever to review a pretty obvious interception, and the DB wasn't down by contact. The Cowboys got the ball back, but way back from the ball would have been had not the whistle blown. They ran one play, and then they had the quarter change. The Cowboys had the Giants on the ropes, but all the extra time allowed the Giants to regroup, get the ball back , and score what was eventually the winning TD.

Say what you will about the Cowboys, most of the games were interesting, and down to the wire. Idiots did cost me on a football pot when they let Cleveland go down, and score a touchdown to send the game into overtime.......................

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We pretty much only measure when it is critical in the game or the possession. And it does not slow the game down. Teams slow the game down with their play selection. The pace of the game is set mostly by the teams and maybe the Referee and the crew getting the ball back to the spot, which we have done very well. I just do not get this attitude of measurements. What are you going to add 10 minutes to the game and that is a bad thing if you did? To me this is like basketball officials that complain about the number of fouls they have to call rather than worrying about more pressing issues, like preventing things that could escalate into things like a fight, but we saved 10 minutes.

Peace

We know you are going to do what you do and that is fine. I think the point everyone is making is your crew's practice and philosophy is counter to everything you see in the NFL and D1 as well as most of us on this forum. That makes you very unique in this particular practice. Are you at least willing to acknowledge that?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

We know you are going to do what you do and that is fine. I think the point everyone is making is your crew's practice and philosophy is counter to everything you see in the NFL and D1 as well as most of us on this forum. That makes you very unique in this particular practice. Are you at least willing to acknowledge that?

I do not judge a HS crew to what happens in the NFL or D1 level with 7 officials and very well marked fields. Just like I would never compare any college anything to a HS situation. The reality I see a lot of measurements with crews on TV more than I do in my small college crew, so go figure.

Peace

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not judge a HS crew to what happens in the NFL or D1 level with 7 officials and very well marked fields. Just like I would never compare any college anything to a HS situation. The reality I see a lot of measurements with crews on TV more than I do in my small college crew, so go figure.

Peace

There certain practices at the higher levels we can apply at the lower levels and this seems like a good one. The end of my point was not only is your crew's practice different than the higher levels but different than those who work at the same level (HS). I only asked you to acknowledge that. For some reason you don't want to do it.

You aren't wrong for measuring as often as you do. We will still respect you if you say, "what we do is different than almost everyone else but it works for us so we'll keep doing it."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

There certain practices at the higher levels we can apply at the lower levels and this seems like a good one. The end of my point was not only is your crew's practice different than the higher levels but different than those who work at the same level (HS). I only asked you to acknowledge that. For some reason you don't want to do it.

You aren't wrong for measuring as often as you do. We will still respect you if you say, "what we do is different than almost everyone else but it works for us so we'll keep doing it."

You keep acting like that this is solely my decision or choice. And you act like it matters to me or the others what college officials do. I am a college official and I do not make HS decisions based on everything we do in college. A lot of things in college do not apply as you have different number of officials and a different path. When I am on my college crew I go along with what they do and I also control little or nothing as to when or if we measure on the college crew either. Also your assertion clearly is not true when a D1 officials made a big deal when he worked with a crew on an "off weekend" and the crew chief said in the pre game, "We are not going to measure today." So obviously everything people claim is done at college levels are clearly not always done. And it seems like everyone is focused on the fact I said 4-5 like that is automatic. I said it was not unusual to have that many but just like any thing else we could have games where 1 measurement is the total. We measure when it is close and we do not guess unlike others. If that makes us a bad crew so be it, I just know it has not hurt us in any way and life goes on.

Peace

[bisonlj]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You keep acting like that this is solely my decision or choice. And you act like it matters to me or the others what college officials do. I am a college official and I do not make HS decisions based on everything we do in college. A lot of things in college do not apply as you have different number of officials and a different path. When I am on my college crew I go along with what they do and I also control little or nothing as to when or if we measure on the college crew either. Also your assertion clearly is not true when a D1 officials made a big deal when he worked with a crew on an "off weekend" and the crew chief said in the pre game, "We are not going to measure today." So obviously everything people claim is done at college levels are clearly not always done. And it seems like everyone is focused on the fact I said 4-5 like that is automatic. I said it was not unusual to have that many but just like any thing else we could have games where 1 measurement is the total. We measure when it is close and we do not guess unlike others. If that makes us a bad crew so be it, I just know it has not hurt us in any way and life goes on.

Peace

I would never advocate never measuring either. That was a stupid comment and someone should challenge the crew chief. Your original statement was that it was "every game" but later backed off a little. Nobody is saying to guess when it's close. They are saying the wings can often spot the ball to make it obvious. We can have discussions and share differences without them getting turned into defensive debates.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I would never advocate never measuring either. That was a stupid comment and someone should challenge the crew chief. Your original statement was that it was "every game" but later backed off a little. Nobody is saying to guess when it's close. They are saying the wings can often spot the ball to make it obvious. We can have discussions and share differences without them getting turned into defensive debates.

And your position has been noted. Not going to change anything I or we do. If you want to never measure be my guest. You will not see me getting upset or telling you do to otherwise. Now what did you want to accomplish by this conversation? Did you want to lecture me as to why I should be like you? As I said before I have two very good reasons why what we do works for us.

Peace

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

I would never advocate never measuring either. That was a stupid comment and someone should challenge the crew chief. Your original statement was that it was "every game" but later backed off a little. Nobody is saying to guess when it's close. They are saying the wings can often spot the ball to make it obvious. We can have discussions and share differences without them getting turned into defensive debates.

You're entitled to Jeff's opinion, it doesn't matter how often it changes.............