Mich / Mich St 12 breaking the huddle

[gtwbam]

For those who watched the Michigan, Michigan State game another "call" not too often seen. occurred.

It was an Illegal substitution call against the defense for having 12 players break the huddle. First time I've ever seen that call made. Just wondering if anyone else has ever called an illegal substitution against the defense; for breaking the huddle with 12 players!

[Welpe]

I've never called it for breaking the huddle with 12 but then I don't work games under NCAA rules.

[Scooby]

This is not a FED rule...so I have never called it.

But, I have called an illegal substitution on the defense.

[Theisey]

The two relevant ARs for this are:

III. A33, an incoming substitute, enters the huddle or assumes a position
in a formation and (a) after approximately two seconds, A34 leaves
the huddle and departs the field of play at his sideline, or (b) after
approximately four seconds, A34 leaves the huddle and departs the
field of play at his sideline.

RULING: (a) Legal. (b) Foul. (Note: A

FI-16 Rule 3-5 / Periods, Time Factors and Substitutions

departing player who leaves the huddle or his position within three
seconds is considered to have left immediately.)

IV. After the ball is made ready for play, substitute B12 enters the huddle
or defensive formation and the departing player delays more than
three seconds before leaving the huddle or formation and departing
the field of play.

RULING: Violation of the substitution rule. Deadball
foul. (Note: The referee is not required to warn a departing

player to leave the huddle immediately.)

[Ed Hickland]

NFHS rules limit a team to 11 players. One who enters is a substitute, the player who leaves is a replaced player and the substitute becomes a player.

Two weeks ago I had the defense in formation with 12 and we called a substitution infraction.

Funniest thing, the coach argued the infraction did not occur until the ball was snapped which would be a 15-yard penalty for illegal participation versus 5 yard dead ball for substitution infrcation. I think he finally got it.