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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 09, 2012, 10:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
Considering that the RTP almost certainly happened well before the PI, and that RTP is a safety issue and PI merely a tactical one that didn't prevent the interception, I would not be disappointed in the outcome of the no-call on the latter.
Even as a defensive coach?
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 09, 2012, 11:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suudy View Post
Even in blowouts?
Yes, even in blowouts. The only thing I try not to call is overly technical plays. I am very diliberate anyway what I call no matter what the sitation. Obvious things need to be called. And in our state if you get to 40 points the clock runs.

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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 09, 2012, 11:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Obvious things need to be called.
When I was a new official, I was like this. The noseguard obviously lines up in the NZ, I'd flag it (we are NFHS), regardless of the game situation. But when B is down by 35 in the last 5 minutes of the game, why bother? What real advantage does he gain? It just slows things down.

I want to re-iterate that this is not my philosophy regarding safety issues (FM, chop blocks, RTP, etc). But technical (and as Robert puts it, tactical) stuff? Why bother.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
And in our state if you get to 40 points the clock runs.
That would be nice. We have a mercy rule for 8 man football, but the clock doesn't come into play. I've done games that ended 70+ to 35. They never reached the threshold for the mercy rule, but it was an obvious blowout. And for 11 man, there is no mercy rule. I've had 70+ to 0 games that took forever. The team behind would not stop passing, and the team ahead would score too quickly. It wasn't unusual to have 4 hour games sometimes. In these games, we definitely don't scrutinize too closely the little stuff.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 09, 2012, 11:56am
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I was always taught to not call holding just because "actual" holding took place. I call holding when there is an advantage. On passing plays there are a lot of contact sometimes and no advantage. I would only try my best to call when there is a clear advantage. So could the score come into play? I guess it could, but not likely. I know where the ball is thrown would come into play. I know if there was an advantage would come into play. I know if it was so obvious it would show up on tape would come into play. There is no hard fast rule that applies to everything in these cases. I just know that if the foul is there an obvious, I am going to call it. I do not sit back and base calls on the score very often unless it is marginal.

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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 09, 2012, 12:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
What was your situation?
QB throws a long pass downfield along my L's sideline. The L is trailing the play while I'm moving to stay in position deep and boxing the play in. Normally, the defender is trailing the receiver downfield. In my play, the defensive player beat the receiver "to the spot", but they are both still running full speed. As the ball is descending into the waiting arms of the defender, the intended receiver places his hands on the shoulder pads of the defender. Doesn't matter...the ball lands in the defenders bread basket for an INT as both players fall to the ground. My L couldn't see the hands on the shoulder pads. I could. But, I passed after seeing the defender posses the ball to the ground.

Last edited by DLH17; Fri Nov 09, 2012 at 02:34pm.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 09, 2012, 01:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DLH17 View Post
QB throws a long pass downfield along my L's sideline. The L is trailing the play while I'm moving to stay in position deep and boxing the play in. Normally, the defender is trailing the receiver downfield. In my play, the defensive player beat the defender "to the spot", but they are both still running full speed. As the ball is descending into the waiting arms of the defender, the intended receiver places his hands on the shoulder pads of the defender. Doesn't matter...the ball lands in the defenders bread basket for an INT as both players fall to the ground. My L couldn't see the hands on the shoulder pads. I could. But, I passed after seeing the defender posses the ball to the ground.
I'd have flagged it anyway. As mentioned before, you don't know for sure what other laundry is already on the field. Not right to not let this offset, when it would have offset had he NOT caught the ball.
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Old Fri Nov 09, 2012, 02:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
I'd have flagged it anyway. As mentioned before, you don't know for sure what other laundry is already on the field. Not right to not let this offset, when it would have offset had he NOT caught the ball.
Good word....thanks for the feedback.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 09, 2012, 09:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Quote:
Considering that the RTP almost certainly happened well before the PI, and that RTP is a safety issue and PI merely a tactical one that didn't prevent the interception, I would not be disappointed in the outcome of the no-call on the latter.
Even as a defensive coach?
Yes.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:42am
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If the DE is being held and still makes the tackle, is it a foul? Generally, no.

Had a play this season where U had holding on A63, R had holding on A73. Assessed one.
At halftime HL says, "Wow, two flags for holding and neither saw the face mask by B33?"
HL's explanation for not throwing the flag for the FM was he had drifted downfield with his receivers and felt he was too far away to throw the flag, and assumed one of the flags was for it anyway.

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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
I'd have flagged it anyway. As mentioned before, you don't know for sure what other laundry is already on the field. Not right to not let this offset, when it would have offset had he NOT caught the ball.
Also I've been told several times by the "vets" in my chapter, you never know who may be in the stands watching the game. Their may be someone there evaluating the crew for post season play, or just a casual observer there who can infulance future assignments. It's our job to finish the game weather it's a 1 poss. game or a "mercy" rule game. The kids play til the clock says 0:00 we should do the same.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 10, 2012, 12:53pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legend View Post
Also I've been told several times by the "vets" in my chapter, you never know who may be in the stands watching the game. Their may be someone there evaluating the crew for post season play, or just a casual observer there who can infulance future assignments. It's our job to finish the game weather it's a 1 poss. game or a "mercy" rule game. The kids play til the clock says 0:00 we should do the same.

Amen! Had a second round playoff game last night that ended 70 - 14. If I bring nothing else to a game, at least I know I'm not taking a one single play off.

Last edited by Scuba_ref; Sat Nov 10, 2012 at 12:56pm.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 10, 2012, 09:29pm
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That sort of thing happened in our game today, the last of the season. Our opponent brought 12 players. After our team scored a TD, one of their players threw his helmet down. That resulted in an immediate DQ. We asked the ref to let him play, but he wouldn't; the league admin. said he wouldn't let him play even if the R did. It was early in the game, which meant the player would not get another chance this fall. And it wasn't like we wanted him to stay in the game as a weak point we could exploit -- which it might've been under other circumstances. So they played with no subs.

We got away with an illegal motion on the try, and eventually won 7-6.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 10, 2012, 10:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suudy View Post
It wasn't specified. I qualified my "not flagging something when it wouldn't otherwise matter" to be in the cases of blowouts. I injected blowouts into the conversation.

And I would never ignore a clear flag during a game, other than a blowout situation. And I said that I wouldn't worry about the OP in a blowout.
My stance, no matter the sport, is to try and have the tape prove me right each and every time. That means calling the clear and obvious without regard for the time or score.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 13, 2012, 11:53am
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We were admonished this year in our college meetings to call the call regardless of the score if it is obvious. The reason is there are too many camera angles to ignore the obvious calls.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 13, 2012, 02:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkdow View Post
We were admonished this year in our college meetings to call the call regardless of the score if it is obvious. The reason is there are too many camera angles to ignore the obvious calls.
Kind of too bad the reason was not "because your job is to call what you see." But I understand.
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