Progress Stopped, or Play On?

[bisonlj]

You don't rule progress stopped the second he's pushed back. You watch the action to see if he is ever able to get out of the action and advance. You may ultimately rule forward progress after the ball the fumbled but it's because you are taking the totality of the action into account. If the ball is handed, passed or stripped by a teammate as quickly as this one, I am OK with a live ball and play continuing. If you do rule forward progress make sure you sell it well and I think you can be supported on this play. It's a judgement call and there is no black and white correct answer.

[maven]

Originally Posted by mtn335

I'm not convinced there was forward handing - it's tough to see here, but I think A1 reached in and took the ball, and A35 permitted him to do so - but if it was: both players are behind the neutral zone and the handing is to a player who was on the end of the line. Legal per NFHS 7-3-2 (I looked up the citation, but knew the answer).

Nailed it!

It was forward handing:
"Forward handing occurs when the runner releases the ball when the
entire ball is beyond the yard line where the runner is positioned." 2-19-2

Not illegal handing, for the reasons you gave.

[mtn335]

Originally Posted by maven

Nailed it!

It was forward handing:
"Forward handing occurs when the runner releases the ball when the
entire ball is beyond the yard line where the runner is positioned." 2-19-2

I read that definition to mean that it's forward if he holds it out forward. If it's in at his body, then wouldn't the ball be at the yard line where he's positioned? Would it be forward handing if a stationary player, facing the opponent's goal line with the ball tucked against his stomach, did nothing while a teammate came and took the ball out of his hands? (I ask out of inexperience, not trying to start an argument :-) )

[mtn335]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

You don't rule progress stopped the second he's pushed back. You watch the action to see if he is ever able to get out of the action and advance. You may ultimately rule forward progress after the ball the fumbled but it's because you are taking the totality of the action into account. If the ball is handed, passed or stripped by a teammate as quickly as this one, I am OK with a live ball and play continuing. If you do rule forward progress make sure you sell it well and I think you can be supported on this play. It's a judgement call and there is no black and white correct answer.

This is where I'm coming down here. I guess I wouldn't fault my wing whichever way he went - he made a decision on a borderline play (and obviously I had his back with the Red sideline!), and we're movin' on.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

You don't rule progress stopped the second he's pushed back. You watch the action to see if he is ever able to get out of the action and advance. You may ultimately rule forward progress after the ball the fumbled but it's because you are taking the totality of the action into account. If the ball is handed, passed or stripped by a teammate as quickly as this one, I am OK with a live ball and play continuing. If you do rule forward progress make sure you sell it well and I think you can be supported on this play. It's a judgement call and there is no black and white correct answer.

You and I will probably never agree on this. I don't believe in giving the ball carrier a second bite at the apple. Is he held so that his forward progress is stopped? That's what needs to be judged. The rest has no bearing.

I happen to believe he was in this play.

[maven]

Originally Posted by mtn335

I read that definition to mean that it's forward if he holds it out forward. If it's in at his body, then wouldn't the ball be at the yard line where he's positioned? Would it be forward handing if a stationary player, facing the opponent's goal line with the ball tucked against his stomach, did nothing while a teammate came and took the ball out of his hands? (I ask out of inexperience, not trying to start an argument :-) )

Holding the ball out away from the body is not necessary for any handing.

The situation you describe is forward handing. When the runner holds the ball in front of him in this situation, they are on different yard lines ('yard line' is a defined term, and refers to more than just the 1 or 5 yard increments marked on the field: 2-26-7).

If the runner is sideways (perpendicular to the goal lines) and holds the ball in front of him, then the ball is at the same yard line. Handing the ball here would not constitute forward handing.

[mtn335]

Gotcha. Thanks!

[Rich]

8-man? Cool.

[ODJ]

Nice crowd.

[Steven Tyler]

Forward progress stopped. Ball should have been spotted about 1 1/2 yards forward from where the ball exchange took place.

[JugglingReferee]

I have progress stopped.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

In Canadian rules, in addition to having progress stopped, the ball carrier must be unable or unwilling to part with the ball.

I've never heard of this before.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

I've never heard of this before.

Maybe it was the ruling in 1942.

[CT1]

I have FP stopped. The defenders had him controlled, & pushed him back 2 yards.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by maven

Nailed it!

It was forward handing:
"Forward handing occurs when the runner releases the ball when the
entire ball is beyond the yard line where the runner is positioned." 2-19-2

Not illegal handing, for the reasons you gave.

This definition proves it was not forward handing. The entire ball was not beyond the runner... it was beside the runner.