Really, No Holding Call!!!!!

[bigjohn]

It is still a foul and should be penalized. The TD should not have stood.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

It is still a foul and should be penalized. The TD should not have stood.

Aaaaaaaah, no it is not. If you are being held, you are prevented from going somewhere or some movement. This is the equivalent to calling a holding call on a player that either makes the tackle or the defense loses yards in the backfield on a play up the middle. For one it is very suspect by all accounts on the video and the defender beat the blocker despite any attempt to stop him from the ball carrier. Again, this would be a rookie call, not a call from an experienced official.

Peace

[bisonlj]

I think JRut is being a little to passe about this one. It was a take-down at the point of attack by a blocker who was beat. It's hard to judge if the take down prevented the defender from making a play any sooner and preventing the "pass" from being made though. This one is tough. This is also a tough one to get. The R will be focused on the QB and the U's keys are spread out so he may or may not get a good look at this. Hard to say if someone saw this and passed on it or if nobody saw it.

[Rich]

It's easier to see the jersey grab in the replay (the second time they show the play), I'll grant that.

What bigjohn doesn't seem to grasp is that it's not simply a matter of seeing a jersey grab and throwing a flag. First of all, who's (in a 5-man crew) going to see this?

Furthermore, it's a split-second judgment in deciding if the grab/restrict affected the play. And that's not a clear-cut decision, either. Although I'm leaning towards what bisonlj said in his post above mine.

So much easier officiating from the sidelines, or so we're told every week.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

So much easier officiating from the sidelines, or so we're told every week.

Almost as easy as officiating from Bristol, CT.

[Texas Aggie]

#70 reaches out and grabs the jersey up near the left shoulder of the defender, spins him, and takes him down.

After the word, jersey, you are 100% wrong. The defender was not restricted, and was going down anyway.

At this point in the game, you have to MAKE IT BIG, or ignore it. Call that on my crew and you won't be working in the playoffs with us.

[JasonTX]

A hold is one where EVERYONE agrees it's a hold. It's those that cause your jaw to drop on what a player does. Did I say it has to be HUGE? If 100 people view a play and 99 think it's a hold. Guess what, it's not. I want my holding calls to have all 100 agree it's a hold. That's how big in needs to be. If you follow that philosophy you will achieve a great deal of consistency in your calls.

[BuckeyeRef]

I have to agree with RadioBlue on this one. It looks to me like #70 pulled the jersey at the shoulder and twisted the defender away from the QB preventing him from making a play. Had I seen it I would have flagged it.

That being said, Bison is correct about who is going to see this one. This is a pretty long play with 22 players spread across the field. The LM, LJ and BJ are all focused on the players downfield and the R has to decide if the QB was down or not. I would be hardpressed to blame anyone if this call were missed.

[kdf5]

A big time hold that had absolutely no effect on the play. A good no call.

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by kdf5

A big time hold that had absolutely no effect on the play. A good no call.

Not sure I can agree with the statement. Perhaps the blocker could've just stayed with the block and not grabbed the jersey. But he didn't ... and there's probably a reason why he didn't. That hold created space and opportunity. If that gets seen (and 95% of the time it probably doesn't in 5-man), it's gotta get a flag IMO.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Aaaaaaaah, no it is not. If you are being held, you are prevented from going somewhere or some movement. This is the equivalent to calling a holding call on a player that either makes the tackle or the defense loses yards in the backfield on a play up the middle. For one it is very suspect by all accounts on the video and the defender beat the blocker despite any attempt to stop him from the ball carrier. Again, this would be a rookie call, not a call from an experienced official.

Peace

On second look at the play, I'm not so sure. The defender may have been slowed a bit by the grab. If I see that, I would likely flag it.

Problem is, as a white hat I'm probably not going to see it - I got a QB being pressured by another defender and I have to rule on the pass. And the umpire may not get it, either -- and from his angle, it's probably not going to look like anything.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

On second look at the play, I'm not so sure. The defender may have been slowed a bit by the grab. If I see that, I would likely flag it.

Problem is, as a white hat I'm probably not going to see it - I got a QB being pressured by another defender and I have to rule on the pass. And the umpire may not get it, either -- and from his angle, it's probably not going to look like anything.

I saw the replay and there are like 3 or 4 players all near the ball. The defender does go around the blocker and runs into another player. That is why I am not calling a hold here and it does not seem like he was prevented from getting to the ball simply on the "grab" attempt alone. There is a reason we say "MIBT" and that was clearly not "there." I certainly see an attempt at a grab, but not an actual clear grab, not with several players around the ball.

Peace

[BigBaldGuy]

Did anyone notice the Referee (White Hate) going to the wrong side of a right handed QB?

If he is on the correct side does he get a better look at the hold (or not a hold)?

[BigBaldGuy]

I would have to call a hold on the play...the defender #70 Holds would have made the tackle before the other defensive player hits the QB.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigBaldGuy

Did anyone notice the Referee (White Hate) going to the wrong side of a right handed QB?

If he is on the correct side does he get a better look at the hold (or not a hold)?

Is it clear that this is a right handed QB? After all he does flip the ball in the air unorthodox on this play.

Peace