Really, No Holding Call!!!!!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

So much easier officiating from the sidelines, or so we're told every week.

Almost as easy as officiating from Bristol, CT.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Aaaaaaaah, no it is not. If you are being held, you are prevented from going somewhere or some movement. This is the equivalent to calling a holding call on a player that either makes the tackle or the defense loses yards in the backfield on a play up the middle. For one it is very suspect by all accounts on the video and the defender beat the blocker despite any attempt to stop him from the ball carrier. Again, this would be a rookie call, not a call from an experienced official.

Peace

On second look at the play, I'm not so sure. The defender may have been slowed a bit by the grab. If I see that, I would likely flag it.

Problem is, as a white hat I'm probably not going to see it - I got a QB being pressured by another defender and I have to rule on the pass. And the umpire may not get it, either -- and from his angle, it's probably not going to look like anything.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

On second look at the play, I'm not so sure. The defender may have been slowed a bit by the grab. If I see that, I would likely flag it.

Problem is, as a white hat I'm probably not going to see it - I got a QB being pressured by another defender and I have to rule on the pass. And the umpire may not get it, either -- and from his angle, it's probably not going to look like anything.

I saw the replay and there are like 3 or 4 players all near the ball. The defender does go around the blocker and runs into another player. That is why I am not calling a hold here and it does not seem like he was prevented from getting to the ball simply on the "grab" attempt alone. There is a reason we say "MIBT" and that was clearly not "there." I certainly see an attempt at a grab, but not an actual clear grab, not with several players around the ball.

Peace

[BigBaldGuy]

Did anyone notice the Referee (White Hate) going to the wrong side of a right handed QB?

If he is on the correct side does he get a better look at the hold (or not a hold)?

[BigBaldGuy]

I would have to call a hold on the play...the defender #70 Holds would have made the tackle before the other defensive player hits the QB.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

It is still a foul and should be penalized. The TD should not have stood.

You've posted plays here before, and by and large get summarily told you are wrong, but usually you have a point of sorts. Your suggestions are wrong, but only due to lack of understanding, or improper connecting of two rules that weren't meant to be connected, or the exploiting of what you find to be a legitimate hole in the rules.

But on this one, sir... You are Dead Freaking Wrong. This one is not even remotely close. On the 0-100 scale, 0 being no contact at all, 100 being a WWF tackle, and anything over 50 being "flag it", this is a 4.

As it was explained to me on my very first day ... Grabbing a jersey is not holding. Grabbing a jersey and pulling with enough force to affect the defender --- THAT is holding.

This guy barely got jersey, and had ZERO effect on the player he barely touched.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BigBaldGuy

Did anyone notice the Referee (White Hate) going to the wrong side of a right handed QB?

If he is on the correct side does he get a better look at the hold (or not a hold)?

Is it clear that this is a right handed QB? After all he does flip the ball in the air unorthodox on this play.

Peace

[BigBaldGuy]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

You've posted plays here before, and by and large get summarily told you are wrong, but usually you have a point of sorts. Your suggestions are wrong, but only due to lack of understanding, or improper connecting of two rules that weren't meant to be connected, or the exploiting of what you find to be a legitimate hole in the rules.

But on this one, sir... You are Dead Freaking Wrong. This one is not even remotely close. On the 0-100 scale, 0 being no contact at all, 100 being a WWF tackle, and anything over 50 being "flag it", this is a 4.

As it was explained to me on my very first day ... Grabbing a jersey is not holding. Grabbing a jersey and pulling with enough force to affect the defender --- THAT is holding.

This guy barely got jersey, and had ZERO effect on the player he barely touched.

I will have to disagree with you 100% on this play..he grabs and pulls the jersey actually taking the defender to the ground...the defender had a good opportunity to make the play. HOLDING!

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

You've posted plays here before, and by and large get summarily told you are wrong, but usually you have a point of sorts. Your suggestions are wrong, but only due to lack of understanding, or improper connecting of two rules that weren't meant to be connected, or the exploiting of what you find to be a legitimate hole in the rules.

But on this one, sir... You are Dead Freaking Wrong. This one is not even remotely close. On the 0-100 scale, 0 being no contact at all, 100 being a WWF tackle, and anything over 50 being "flag it", this is a 4.

As it was explained to me on my very first day ... Grabbing a jersey is not holding. Grabbing a jersey and pulling with enough force to affect the defender --- THAT is holding.

This guy barely got jersey, and had ZERO effect on the player he barely touched.

I'm not so sure about that. Let the video play and watch the replay they show. Why does the defender go down? This, to me, is the real question -- is the grab the reason the player goes down or is it just him trying to get at the QB.

The grab happened SO LATE. And you're right -- I couldn't possibly care that he grabbed the jersey -- it's the restriction/takedown that could occur because of it that I'm looking for.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BigBaldGuy

I will have to disagree with you 100% on this play..he grabs and pulls the jersey actually taking the defender to the ground...the defender had a good opportunity to make the play. HOLDING!

There is no chance he took the defender to the ground. The defender was trying to turn toward the ballcarrier. If the blocker affected the player AT ALL (and I don't see that he does), it's in the direction of the ballcarrier. The defender goes to ground in effort to make the tackle as the runner goes by him.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by BigBaldGuy

Did anyone notice the Referee (White Hate) going to the wrong side of a right handed QB?

If he is on the correct side does he get a better look at the hold (or not a hold)?

Why do you think it's the "wrong" side? In a 5-man crew with the ball at the hash, I almost always "balance the field", regardless of the QB's throwing arm.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by CT1

Why do you think it's the "wrong" side? In a 5-man crew with the ball at the hash, I almost always "balance the field", regardless of the QB's throwing arm.

For a 4-man or 5-man (or 6-man or 7-man) crew, the proper mechanic is to be on the passing arm side. Our keys don't change, after all.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CT1

Why do you think it's the "wrong" side? In a 5-man crew with the ball at the hash, I almost always "balance the field", regardless of the QB's throwing arm.

Because that's not what you're supposed to do.

[cdoug]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Because that's not what you're supposed to do.

New in Ohio this year R is supposed to be on the wide side of the field no matter what hand the QB throws the ball with.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by cdoug

New in Ohio this year R is supposed to be on the wide side of the field no matter what hand the QB throws the ball with.

That's idiotic, quite frankly. But it does explain why the R does what he does.