basic question (sorry) about spot of ball post holding call...

[nmayhew]

Hi,

First post here, and sorry if I am asking very basic stuff (which I am) - I have looked on the NFL Rulebook but seem to be missing something obvious.

My question:

Team A has 2nd and 10, ball on the A30 yd line.
They rush 20yds to midfield, but there is offensive holding by a player at A45.
What is down and distance for the next play?

I am confused because in the NFL Rulebook they give the following example:
"A.R. 14.4
Second-and-10 on A30. Runner A1 is downed on the A40. An offensive player illegally
uses his hands on the A35.
Ruling: The offensive foul is behind the basic spot (spot where downed).
Penalize from the spot of the foul (A35). A’s ball second-and-15 on A25."

So does this mean in my example the ball should be placed on the A35 ie penalize 10yds from spot of foul?
Would it be 2nd and 5?
That just doesn't sound right.

And if the run had been for say 40yds to the B30, and the holding had occurred on B40, what then?
The more I run examples through my head the more confused I seem to be getting!

[mbyron]

1. You're correct: 2nd and 5 at A35.
2. 1st and 10 at midfield.

You state that it doesn't "sound right," but remember: A is making positive yards on the play, but is penalized due to the foul. Both factors count for determining the spot.

Down and distance get figured after the penalty.

[nmayhew]

MB thank you for your help.

I was trawling through play-by-play on NFL.com to find examples but what they don't tell you on there is where the foul was committed, which is key, right?

However, this play came to my attention from San Diego v Pittsburgh last night (I have it recorded but haven't watched it yet):

"2-6-PIT 36 (3:56) 39-W.Parker right end to PIT 49 for 13 yards (24-C.Gordon). PENALTY on PIT-83-H.Miller, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 36 - No Play. "

The next play was 2-16 from PIT 26.

I know it's difficult without seeing the play, but was the penalty enforced at the original line of scrimmage and it deemed "no play" because Miller committed the holding penalty either at or behind the l-o-s?

Otherwise it seems to contradict the earlier examples.

Many thanks once again,

Nick

[Rich]

Originally Posted by nmayhew

MB thank you for your help.

I was trawling through play-by-play on NFL.com to find examples but what they don't tell you on there is where the foul was committed, which is key, right?

However, this play came to my attention from San Diego v Pittsburgh last night (I have it recorded but haven't watched it yet):

"2-6-PIT 36 (3:56) 39-W.Parker right end to PIT 49 for 13 yards (24-C.Gordon). PENALTY on PIT-83-H.Miller, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 36 - No Play. "

The next play was 2-16 from PIT 26.

I know it's difficult without seeing the play, but was the penalty enforced at the original line of scrimmage and it deemed "no play" because Miller committed the holding penalty either at or behind the l-o-s?

Otherwise it seems to contradict the earlier examples.

Many thanks once again,

Nick

In the NFL, fouls at or behind the line of scrimmage are penalized from the previous spot. The penalty includes a replay of the down.

Downfield (on a running play), the foul is either penalized from the end of the run or the spot of the foul, depending on which hurts the team with the ball the most. (Think of it this way - the offense is entitled to all the yardage up to the end of the run or the foul, whichever comes first.) If the line-to-gain is reached after enforcing the foul, it's 1st-and-10. If not, replay the down.