"Traveling" Signal at snap

[bigjohn]

they can't be moving (hands, feet or heads) at the snap. There must be at least 1 full second of this before the snap or it is a foul. So even though they came set, they started moving again and a new 1 second is requires, just like a new shift.



Rule 7-2-6 says they must remain motionless until the ball is snapped but it must be at least one second, it could be more if there is time on the 25 to be set for longer. The 1 second means they can't just stop moving and immediately snap the ball.

[REFANDUMP]

I would flag this. This isn't a natural motion, and is strictly being done to distract the defense. I would also flag swinging of the arms, if excessive, by the recievers. I would not flag a head turn or slight movements if not done in a manner to simulate the start of the play. This would be one of those "spirit of the rule" situations and not a "letter of the law" .

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

I would flag this. This isn't a natural motion, and is strictly being done to distract the defense. I would also flag swinging of the arms, if excessive, by the recievers. I would not flag a head turn or slight movements if not done in a manner to simulate the start of the play. This would be one of those "spirit of the rule" situations and not a "letter of the law" .

I hear you, but I don't see "distract the defense" as either the reason or a problem. Receivers and backs hand signal to each other all the time. Yes, this one is more blatant and more visible - but why in the world would it distract the defense or affect them at all. We don't make them reset every time someone turns a head or swings an arm. Only motion that simulated the snap should be flagged (excepting, of course, moving forward). I highly doubt that the spirit of the rule was to prevent this - it was done to let the defense be aware that the snap is imminent and to prevent any advantage. The 1-second stop does the former, and the actions described give no advantage.

[bigjohn]

So 7-1-7b REFANDUMP?

or flat out 9-9-5

[REFANDUMP]

If we decide this is legal, are we going to allow "butt bobbing" by an offensive lineman or not ?? How much and what type of movement is legal and doesn't draw a flag. I think this comes down to the intent of the rulesmakers and not the "letter of the law" as written in the book. If they wanted to do this "traveling" signal to signal something to their quarterback, they would be welcome to do this before stopping for a second and then running their play. In this situation, they are doing it strictly as a distraction in a method that the rulesmakers do not intend, in my opinion. I still feel a flag is appropriate. I would call illegal procedure, although there may be just cause to rule this unsportsmanlike conduct.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

I would flag this. This isn't a natural motion, and is strictly being done to distract the defense. I would also flag swinging of the arms, if excessive, by the recievers. I would not flag a head turn or slight movements if not done in a manner to simulate the start of the play. This would be one of those "spirit of the rule" situations and not a "letter of the law" .

You're making stuff up. "Not a natural motion" and "distracting the defense" are not illegal. Doing stuff the official doesn't like or doesn't think is "proper football" is also not illegal.

Spirit of what rule? There's just no advantage to this.

[REFANDUMP]

Originally Posted by mbyron

You're making stuff up. "Not a natural motion" and "distracting the defense" are not illegal. Doing stuff the official doesn't like or doesn't think is "proper football" is also not illegal.

Spirit of what rule? There's just no advantage to this.

I don't think I'm making stuff up at all. We're told all the time to officiate to the spirit of the rules and not the letter of the law. If they have people standing out there waving their arms or dancing, you're telling me that these aren't flagged unless their feet move or they go forward. I go back to my previous post regarding linemen "butt bobbing". Do we not flag that either ?? What criteria do we use to determine what movements are legal and what aren't. We have to use common sense and only allow movements that are common to the game, otherwise we have a travesty being created out there.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by REFANDUMP

I don't think I'm making stuff up at all. We're told all the time to officiate to the spirit of the rules and not the letter of the law. If they have people standing out there waving their arms or dancing, you're telling me that these aren't flagged unless their feet move or they go forward. I go back to my previous post regarding linemen "butt bobbing". Do we not flag that either ?? What criteria do we use to determine what movements are legal and what aren't. We have to use common sense and only allow movements that are common to the game, otherwise we have a travesty being created out there.

Stop exaggerating to try to make a point. There is a difference between dancing which would include moving feet, body and arms, than someone moving their arms. And we have never required someone to be totally still. If that is the case we would flag any offensive player that moves their head at some point and I doubt seriously anyone flags that. I get a reasonable discussion about if this specific signal should be allowed, but I do not get the position that any movement falls under the illegal category. And no one at a high level that I am aware of calls a false start for players moving while in a stance either. Usually only someone that is not familiar with football would call that kind of action. Never has their been a ruling that says a player must be totally still. They just cannot simulate the snap.

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

they can't be moving (hands, feet or heads) at the snap. There must be at least 1 full second of this before the snap or it is a foul. So even though they came set, they started moving again and a new 1 second is requires, just like a new shift.



Rule 7-2-6 says they must remain motionless until the ball is snapped but it must be at least one second, it could be more if there is time on the 25 to be set for longer. The 1 second means they can't just stop moving and immediately snap the ball.

Thanks for stepping up and (mis)defining this for us. Since clinics have been telling me the opposite of what you just said, we've all been doing this wrong for years. Now that we have the on-high definitive interpretation from someone with your vast experience both on the field and in meetings with TPTB, we can start ruling correctly again.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

they can't be moving (hands, feet or heads) at the snap. There must be at least 1 full second of this before the snap or it is a foul. So even though they came set, they started moving again and a new 1 second is requires, just like a new shift.



Rule 7-2-6 says they must remain motionless until the ball is snapped but it must be at least one second, it could be more if there is time on the 25 to be set for longer. The 1 second means they can't just stop moving and immediately snap the ball.

1. Moving your hands is not a shift.

2. No it doesn't.