This happened at least 5 times in OHSAA Finals!

[asdf]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Most offical think that if there is a receiver in the area it can never be IG.

Please provide the research data you have in hand to prove this allegation.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Most offical think that if there is a receiver in the area it can never be IG.

Trying to respond to you in a useful manner, again here.

Your posts tend to rub people the wrong way because they invariably tend to point to an official SOMEWHERE not doing his job in a way that you (lacking any training) felt he should. So people see that you are the poster and they shut down and don't give your posts a chance.

Those of us who don't shut down and actually do try to reason out the situations posted likely get completely turned off by the kind of statement you've made here. This is the second such post. Not only have you decided that you (lacking any training) understand the rules better than most officials... but now you've gone further and decided that you also know what "most officials think". Perhaps one local idiot that officiated one of your games and was foolish enough to discuss his rules interpretations with you does think in the way you say. But you're not going to get a whole lot of honest discussion if you continue to tell us (officials ourselves) what "most officials think".

NO official that I've ever discussed this rule with thinks in the manner you have attributed to "most" of us. None, zero, zilch, nada. NO ONE. Perhaps some rookies come in with such absurd notions - but if they've gone through the training, and actually listened, there is no way they come OUT of their training with the understanding you describe.

Most COACHES believe what you state. Perhaps even most coach-potato-self-proclaimed-rules-experts without any officials' training believe what you state. Officials don't. If you want to continue discussing situations here with us, stop making assumptions as to what we think.

[bigjohn]

Look guys, I defend officials more than anyone. I know it is a thankless job and very important part of the game of HS football. I just don't understand why the powers that be don't instruct them to call this rule as written. If the ball is thrown away to save a sack it should be called. There is no tackle box and no requirement for a receiver in the area.

7-5-2e stands on its own!

e. A pass intentionally thrown incomplete to save loss of yardage or to conserve time

I would just like to see it called this way or change the rule!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Look guys, I defend officials more than anyone. I know it is a thankless job and very important part of the game of HS football. I just don't understand why the powers that be don't instruct them to call this rule as written. If the ball is thrown away to save a sack it should be called. There is no tackle box and no requirement for a receiver in the area.

No you don't. You spend all your time trying to tell us what we should call and why we don't. Even when you have shown video of plays, you then tried to claim we did not realize what we were seeing or did not want to admit what

Originally Posted by bigjohn

7-5-2e stands on its own!

e. A pass intentionally thrown incomplete to save loss of yardage or to conserve time

I would just like to see it called this way or change the rule!

And this just shows how ignorant you are about officiating. This is also why I say to you have never done a lick of officiating in your life or career. Rules all have a philosophy. They can write rules to say something, but you also have to have some idea of how to come to those conclusions to enforce those rules. First of all none of us can get into someone's head and know what they are intentionally doing. Just like we do not call holding based on simple holding either and things like point of attack, strong legs and advantage/disadvantage are considered. The game has so many facets to it and so does this rule. We do not see games with the best talent at the HS varsity level and often times when they try to complete a pass they are throwing bad passes. Also you have no idea what everyone does across the country either. Every crew I have been on calls this from time to time. When I was a referee for 5 years I called this time to time. I even called it once where the QB was throwing directly at an eligible receiver.

And unlike you I have actually been on a State Final field twice. I have actually had to call some things that many have watched or complained about. I have had to answer questions as to why things happen in a game that the state is watching. You have no idea what all officials are thinking and often they are not always agreeing with calls you can make in these situations. I am sure there were officials that disagreed with these calls. But then again you consider the source and the motives of those people. Some officials are complaining no matter what you do. Others are complaining because a philosophy or rule was not followed based on training.

Your issue is local and with your games. If you have a problem then talk to your people, do not come here when you cannot show us one video to even have us debate. There has got to be a play on YouTube somewhere if these were so egregious right?

Peace

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

Look guys, I defend officials more than anyone.

Not here you don't. Much to the contrary.

I just don't understand why the powers that be don't instruct them to call this rule as written.

Here's part of the issue. How in the world do you know what is or is not being instructed? STOP making assumptions regarding thoughts and acts of which you know nothing.

If the ball is thrown away to save a sack it should be called.

Obviously.

There is no tackle box and no requirement for a receiver in the area.

Obviously.

7-5-2e stands on its own!

e. A pass intentionally thrown incomplete to save loss of yardage or to conserve time

I would just like to see it called this way or change the rule!

The error is in your interpretation. Unless you are psychic (maybe you are since you keep telling us what most people think)... you do NOT know the intent of the passer. All you have to go by is physical evidence. I know that I personally have called IG on a pass that did, in fact, go toward a receiver, and I know that my crew has called others. Why make that call? Because the QB was not trying to hit the receiver but rather just threw it somewhere, and a receiver happened to be there. However, in MOST cases, if there is a receiver in the direction the ball is thrown and the QB is looking in that direction, he is going to get the benefit of the doubt - simply because the official does not KNOW the intent of the QB. A QB that is running for his life is less accurate than one in the pocket. A QB that is in the process of going down is also less accurate than one who is not. Unless you KNOW the QB was not trying to complete the pass, you can't call him for IG.

If you can't understand this - and understand that this IS the way we are taught, then we can't help you.

[bigjohn]

I meant I defend you when I am at games, coaching or spectating. I hear what you are saying but there were at least 5 times in the state final that it was very clear that the QB was dumping the ball OOB over the intended receiver's head and it was not called IG.

That is a State of Ohio problem, I agree. It should be remedied.
I am the champion of officials and often respected by them in person. Too bad you guys here take my questions and comments so personally.

Thanks for the banter. Time for a break.

[asdf]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

I am the champion of officials

I rest my case..........

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

That is a State of Ohio problem, I agree. It should be remedied.
I am the champion of officials and often respected by them in person. Too bad you guys here take my questions and comments so personally.

I do not know who would take it personally, but you are offering no valuable discussion points. All you are saying is this was not called and claimed the officials ignored the rule, while at the same time not showing the video or anything that we can honestly debate. Then you claim you want it to be called and that the officials are totally ignoring the rule. If you are a champion you certainly do not show that here. Officials make mistakes all the time, but it is different to say they made a mistake then say they ignored or refused to apply a rule. And this is all coming from a person that has never put on a whistle in a real game and has no idea what that actually means to do that. You are not a champion (other than having a big mouth) when you say the things you do.

Peace