Pulling the pile?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Are you actually suggesting that pulling the jersey of a teammate, in possession of a live ball, forward would not violate 9-1-1, "An offensive player shall not push, pull or lift the runner to assist his forward progress"?

The OP said the player was pulling THE PILE. I assumed this meant "not the runner". The rule you describe makes it illegal to pull the teammate IN POSSESSION OF A LIVE BALL... but not just some random player in the pile.

[bigjohn]

Westwood Rams vs Firebirds Seniors - Chris Push the Pile - YouTube

Red #39

[HLin NC]

Uh, Red #39 peels back to block BJ.

Guess again.

[bigjohn]

red #39 is pulling the pile!
It is not illegal because he is on defense, but he is pulling the pile!

There should be a flag on this play though and most of you would not throw it. More than one A player is pushing the pile and helping the runner.

That is the spirit of the rule.

[bcl1127]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

red #39 is pulling the pile!
It is not illegal because he is on defense, but he is pulling the pile!

There should be a flag on this play though and most of you would not throw it. More than one A player is pushing the pile and helping the runner.

That is the spirit of the rule.

The rule is the rule as written in the rule book, you have no idea what the "spirit" of the rule is. No one was directly helping the runner, thus no flag, I would hope no official would throw a flag on this play as there is no reason for one.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

red #39 is pulling the pile!
It is not illegal because he is on defense, but he is pulling the pile!

There should be a flag on this play though and most of you would not throw it. More than one A player is pushing the pile and helping the runner.

That is the spirit of the rule.

They've had a long time to say so in the rules, analogously to forced touching situations in relationship to the ball, but they haven't, so I assume they want to keep it legal. A defender turns his back to you in making the tackle just as you get there, or you work your way around in contact from his side to his back, then you can block him in the back, and that winds up xmitting force to the runner in this example, nothing you can do about it in the rules. I would say that if you approached from behind and the tackler already clearly had his back to you as you approached so that your initial contact was with his back, you should be flagged for that.

[bigjohn]

#2 and 32 are directly contacting the runner in the video I posted.
Like I said most officials won't call it. I watched the OHSAA state finals 2 years ago and saw it 5 times in one game where the FB came up and pushed the QB toward the goal line. No call, the next year I believe it was a POE.

[bcl1127]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

#2 and 32 are directly contacting the runner in the video I posted.
Like I said most officials won't call it. I watched the OHSAA state finals 2 years ago and saw it 5 times in one game where the FB came up and pushed the QB toward the goal line. No call, the next year I believe it was a POE.

You need you eyes checked, #2 is pushing a RED player who is between him and the runner, and #32 is not pushing at all, more like standing there watching with his hands out. shame on anyone who thinks this is helping the runner.

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

#2 and 32 are directly contacting the runner in the video I posted.
Like I said most officials won't call it. I watched the OHSAA state finals 2 years ago and saw it 5 times in one game where the FB came up and pushed the QB toward the goal line. No call, the next year I believe it was a POE.

I don't doubt that in many "pushing the pile" situations there may very well be undetected "helping the runner" occuring. However, officials do not have the luxury of "suspecting" what may be going on, that many spectators enjoy.

For a field official, applying Penalties is restricted to only those rule violations that are directly and unequivocaly observed in their entirety, or perceived to have been observed.

When observed, Helping the Runner is a foul, if not directly observed it should not be called, and you should understand this foul, when a large group of players are involved is extremely difficult to observe.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

red #39 is pulling the pile!
It is not illegal because he is on defense, but he is pulling the pile!

There should be a flag on this play though and most of you would not throw it. More than one A player is pushing the pile and helping the runner.

That is the spirit of the rule.

It is no such thing. People push "the pile" all the time. Surely you don't mean that if you can't get to the runner, you must back off and wait your turn...

The rule says you can't push THE RUNNER. (Like Reggie Bush was pushed in the ND-USC game a few years back). Pushing the pile is NOTHING. You can't get on the ballcarrier and just push him.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

The OP said the player was pulling THE PILE. I assumed this meant "not the runner". The rule you describe makes it illegal to pull the teammate IN POSSESSION OF A LIVE BALL... but not just some random player in the pile.

If you're on offense, who are you allowed to pull? Some player away from the play, OK. We had a goofy play in touch football where receivers interlaced elbows and did a 360 before separating...that would be legal. But who in cx with a pile could you legally pull on? You can't use your hands & arms to interlock in interference for the runner, and you can't pull a defender away from the runner -- or towards the runner, for that matter. Who does that leave?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

If you're on offense, who are you allowed to pull? Some player away from the play, OK. We had a goofy play in touch football where receivers interlaced elbows and did a 360 before separating...that would be legal. But who in cx with a pile could you legally pull on? You can't use your hands & arms to interlock in interference for the runner, and you can't pull a defender away from the runner -- or towards the runner, for that matter. Who does that leave?

9 other players. 41% of the people on the field.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

9 other players. 41% of the people on the field.

When they're part of a pile? No way.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

When they're part of a pile? No way.

There are no rules whatsoever that say what you can do to a teammate that doesn't have the ball, with the exception of interlocking your arms while blocking. Pushing or pulling on your own player who does not have the ball is not illegal.

[HLin NC]

You know, I've found the "ignore poster" function in the user CP is a blissful experience.