The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Football

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 08, 2011, 11:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7
Pulling the pile?

My 11-12 youth team was called for illegally "pulling the pile" on a wedge play and the penalty was for 15 yards. I have never ever heard of this being called and have searched through my rule books to no avail. I have heard of the illegally assisting the runner penalty for 5 yards. But 15 yard penalty? Instead of 3rd and goal from the 1/2 yard line it became 3rd and goal from the 15 and 1/2. We didn't score and lost 6-0.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 08, 2011, 11:50pm
Chain of Fools
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,648
There is no such foul in NFHS. Many coaches want "pushing the pile" called but unless the aiding player contacts the runner directly, its not going to be called.

SECTION 1 HELPING THE RUNNER
An offensive player shall not push, pull or lift the runner to assist his forward
progress.
PENALTY: Helping the runner (S44) – 5 yards.

That being said, we have no way of knowing what rule set your league uses, what modifications are being used, what you might have "misheard", what the official might have "misspoke".

Did you request a coach-referee conference to discuss the possible misapplication of a rule?
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 09, 2011, 06:29am
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,558
Lightbulb Canadian Ruling

Quote:
Originally Posted by pat727 View Post
My 11-12 youth team was called for illegally "pulling the pile" on a wedge play and the penalty was for 15 yards. I have never ever heard of this being called and have searched through my rule books to no avail. I have heard of the illegally assisting the runner penalty for 5 yards. But 15 yard penalty? Instead of 3rd and goal from the 1/2 yard line it became 3rd and goal from the 15 and 1/2. We didn't score and lost 6-0.
CANADIAN RULING:

Legal.
__________________
Pope Francis
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 09, 2011, 08:58am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Only thing I could see legitimately called here might be holding ... if the pulling was done on an opponent.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 09, 2011, 11:11am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7
[QUOTE=HLin NC;797636]There is no such foul in NFHS. Many coaches want "pushing the pile" called but unless the aiding player contacts the runner directly, its not going to be called.

SECTION 1 HELPING THE RUNNER
An offensive player shall not push, pull or lift the runner to assist his forward
progress.
PENALTY: Helping the runner (S44) – 5 yards.

That being said, we have no way of knowing what rule set your league uses, what modifications are being used, what you might have "misheard", what the official might have "misspoke".

Did you request a coach-referee conference to discuss the possible misapplication of a rule?

I completely agree with what you say regarding that the ref might have misspoke.. I know that he definitely told me it was illegal to pull on the pile...
Also this situation occurred at the expiration of the 1st quarter so I wasn't aware there was a penalty until after we had our kids ran back onto the field. I saw the officials in conference but thought they were just chatting because it was between quarters.. The penalty I believe was for unsportsman like conduct " pulling on the pile." I have never heard that penalty ever called in all my years of football. It's honestly my own fault for not challenging him and taking his explanation at face value. But now I know..
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 09, 2011, 04:08pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,875
Am I the only one here who sees this? Think what "pulling" entails, and if on offense you're pulling anything, it's got to be illegal use of hands. That hasn't been a 15 yard penalty for decades, but it's either:
  • assisting the ballcarrier by pulling him,
  • locking arms with a teammate in blocking, or
  • holding an opponent.
Can anyone else explain how any form of "pulling the pile" where a teammate in the pile has the ball could be legal other than in Rugby Union?
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 09, 2011, 04:55pm
Chain of Fools
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,648
Quote:
Can anyone else explain how any form of "pulling the pile" where a teammate in the pile has the ball could be legal other than in Rugby Union?
Can you explain how one would even pull a "pile"? Unfortunately, we weren't there to see and hear it for ourselves. Whatever you see in this, only you know.

This case appears to either be some form of miscommunication or an official(s) that is either way too new or way too old or just simply made something up. We don't even know the level of officiating for this league is. Are they local HS officials or are they volunteers run through a Saturday clinic in August?

This coach probably needs to approach the officiating administrator for this league and try to get clarification on the play and enforcement. Something isn't adding up.

Last edited by HLin NC; Wed Nov 09, 2011 at 04:59pm.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 11, 2011, 01:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
Am I the only one here who sees this? Think what "pulling" entails, and if on offense you're pulling anything, it's got to be illegal use of hands. That hasn't been a 15 yard penalty for decades, but it's either:
  • assisting the ballcarrier by pulling him,
  • locking arms with a teammate in blocking, or
  • holding an opponent.
Can anyone else explain how any form of "pulling the pile" where a teammate in the pile has the ball could be legal other than in Rugby Union?
Sure. You left out[*]pulling the jersey of a teammate (which would be completely legal).
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 11, 2011, 01:27pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
Sure. You left out[*]pulling the jersey of a teammate (which would be completely legal).
You mean the standard for illegal use of hands on opponents and teammates is different? Is not grasping the clothes grasping the person wearing them?
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 11, 2011, 02:35pm
TODO: creative title here
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
You mean the standard for illegal use of hands on opponents and teammates is different? Is not grasping the clothes grasping the person wearing them?
Yep, that's exactly what he means.

See Rule 9-2
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 11, 2011, 04:39pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Goodman View Post
You mean the standard for illegal use of hands on opponents and teammates is different? Is not grasping the clothes grasping the person wearing them?
Um ... are you serious? Who's being punked here? Thank god you own no stripes.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 12, 2011, 09:39am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by jTheUmp View Post
Yep, that's exactly what he means.

See Rule 9-2
So I'm being naive to assume that the word "grasp" as used in different portions of that rule had the same meaning as applied to teammates and opponents?
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 12, 2011, 10:03am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,593
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbcrowder View Post
Sure. You left out[*]pulling the jersey of a teammate (which would be completely legal).
Are you actually suggesting that pulling the jersey of a teammate, in possession of a live ball, forward would not violate 9-1-1, "An offensive player shall not push, pull or lift the runner to assist his forward progress"?
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 12, 2011, 11:31am
Chain of Fools
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,648
I'm still trying to wrap my brain around pulling an entire pile without the aid of some netting and mechanized equipment.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 12, 2011, 04:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,875
Quote:
Originally Posted by HLin NC View Post
I'm still trying to wrap my brain around pulling an entire pile without the aid of some netting and mechanized equipment.
Are you serious? The head bone's connected to the neck bone, etc.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pile in the endzone & Ball belongs to ... ML99 Football 13 Sun Nov 01, 2009 08:35am
Pulling up the pants refnrev Basketball 24 Tue Feb 17, 2009 09:08am
Moving Pile MI Official Football 12 Sun Oct 14, 2007 03:56pm
Pulling the Trigger dddunn3d Baseball 5 Thu Apr 28, 2005 01:54pm
Pulling Player to the floor LepTalBldgs Basketball 4 Fri Jan 07, 2005 07:54pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:47am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1