Pulling the pile?

[pat727]

My 11-12 youth team was called for illegally "pulling the pile" on a wedge play and the penalty was for 15 yards. I have never ever heard of this being called and have searched through my rule books to no avail. I have heard of the illegally assisting the runner penalty for 5 yards. But 15 yard penalty? Instead of 3rd and goal from the 1/2 yard line it became 3rd and goal from the 15 and 1/2. We didn't score and lost 6-0.

[HLin NC]

There is no such foul in NFHS. Many coaches want "pushing the pile" called but unless the aiding player contacts the runner directly, its not going to be called.

SECTION 1 HELPING THE RUNNER
An offensive player shall not push, pull or lift the runner to assist his forward
progress.
PENALTY: Helping the runner (S44) – 5 yards.

That being said, we have no way of knowing what rule set your league uses, what modifications are being used, what you might have "misheard", what the official might have "misspoke".

Did you request a coach-referee conference to discuss the possible misapplication of a rule?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by pat727

My 11-12 youth team was called for illegally "pulling the pile" on a wedge play and the penalty was for 15 yards. I have never ever heard of this being called and have searched through my rule books to no avail. I have heard of the illegally assisting the runner penalty for 5 yards. But 15 yard penalty? Instead of 3rd and goal from the 1/2 yard line it became 3rd and goal from the 15 and 1/2. We didn't score and lost 6-0.

CANADIAN RULING:

Legal.

[MD Longhorn]

Only thing I could see legitimately called here might be holding ... if the pulling was done on an opponent.

[pat727]

[QUOTE=HLin NC;797636]There is no such foul in NFHS. Many coaches want "pushing the pile" called but unless the aiding player contacts the runner directly, its not going to be called.

SECTION 1 HELPING THE RUNNER
An offensive player shall not push, pull or lift the runner to assist his forward
progress.
PENALTY: Helping the runner (S44) – 5 yards.

That being said, we have no way of knowing what rule set your league uses, what modifications are being used, what you might have "misheard", what the official might have "misspoke".

Did you request a coach-referee conference to discuss the possible misapplication of a rule?

I completely agree with what you say regarding that the ref might have misspoke.. I know that he definitely told me it was illegal to pull on the pile...
Also this situation occurred at the expiration of the 1st quarter so I wasn't aware there was a penalty until after we had our kids ran back onto the field. I saw the officials in conference but thought they were just chatting because it was between quarters.. The penalty I believe was for unsportsman like conduct " pulling on the pile." I have never heard that penalty ever called in all my years of football. It's honestly my own fault for not challenging him and taking his explanation at face value. But now I know..

[Robert Goodman]

Am I the only one here who sees this? Think what "pulling" entails, and if on offense you're pulling anything, it's got to be illegal use of hands. That hasn't been a 15 yard penalty for decades, but it's either:

• assisting the ballcarrier by pulling him,
• locking arms with a teammate in blocking, or
• holding an opponent.

Can anyone else explain how any form of "pulling the pile" where a teammate in the pile has the ball could be legal other than in Rugby Union?

[HLin NC]

Can anyone else explain how any form of "pulling the pile" where a teammate in the pile has the ball could be legal other than in Rugby Union?

Can you explain how one would even pull a "pile"? Unfortunately, we weren't there to see and hear it for ourselves. Whatever you see in this, only you know.

This case appears to either be some form of miscommunication or an official(s) that is either way too new or way too old or just simply made something up. We don't even know the level of officiating for this league is. Are they local HS officials or are they volunteers run through a Saturday clinic in August?

This coach probably needs to approach the officiating administrator for this league and try to get clarification on the play and enforcement. Something isn't adding up.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Am I the only one here who sees this? Think what "pulling" entails, and if on offense you're pulling anything, it's got to be illegal use of hands. That hasn't been a 15 yard penalty for decades, but it's either:

• assisting the ballcarrier by pulling him,
• locking arms with a teammate in blocking, or
• holding an opponent.

Can anyone else explain how any form of "pulling the pile" where a teammate in the pile has the ball could be legal other than in Rugby Union?

Sure. You left out[*]pulling the jersey of a teammate (which would be completely legal).

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Sure. You left out[*]pulling the jersey of a teammate (which would be completely legal).

You mean the standard for illegal use of hands on opponents and teammates is different? Is not grasping the clothes grasping the person wearing them?

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

You mean the standard for illegal use of hands on opponents and teammates is different? Is not grasping the clothes grasping the person wearing them?

Yep, that's exactly what he means.

See Rule 9-2

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

You mean the standard for illegal use of hands on opponents and teammates is different? Is not grasping the clothes grasping the person wearing them?

Um ... are you serious? Who's being punked here? Thank god you own no stripes.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Yep, that's exactly what he means.

See Rule 9-2

So I'm being naive to assume that the word "grasp" as used in different portions of that rule had the same meaning as applied to teammates and opponents?

[ajmc]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Sure. You left out[*]pulling the jersey of a teammate (which would be completely legal).

Are you actually suggesting that pulling the jersey of a teammate, in possession of a live ball, forward would not violate 9-1-1, "An offensive player shall not push, pull or lift the runner to assist his forward progress"?

[HLin NC]

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around pulling an entire pile without the aid of some netting and mechanized equipment.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

I'm still trying to wrap my brain around pulling an entire pile without the aid of some netting and mechanized equipment.

Are you serious? The head bone's connected to the neck bone, etc.