Untimed Down

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by bisonlj

Thanks for asking the question. This is another example where announcers make our lives very difficult.

Not just the play-by-play guys, but the clock operator and stadium announcer as well.

Oh, five or six years ago, we had a hold on the last timed down in the first quarter. When the clock was stopped for the penalty (the play ended in bounds), there as about :10 left on the clock. The coach decided to let the clock run out (I'm in WA, so NFHS rules). Our WH (the experienced, classy guy that he is) walked to both head coaches, explained there would be one untimed down, then made the signal and signaled the ready. At the snap, the clock operator started the clock. We then had to send a runner to the press box to tell him what happened. It was an ugly, lengthy delay, and there was grumbling from the fans. But at least the coaches knew what was up, and they were good with it.

We did a quarterfinal a few years back. Big stadium, big schools. We had a pass interference right at the end of the first quarter. Once again, we notified the coaches and went on with the untimed down. We enforced the penalty and signaled an untimed down. The announcer, over the PA, said "Um, Mr Official, the quarter is over." We nodded and said "Yes, we know." He persisted. "Hey guys, the quarter is over." We nodded again. We ran the play and and then went on. At halftime, the announcer came down and asked why we didn't take care of the end of the quarter. After explanation, he understood. Again, we looked cheesy, but again, the coaches knew what was up.

[Theisey]

This is a prime reason the Referee has to insist the snotty nose know-it-all high school clock operators come down for a meeting at least 30 minutes before the game.
Going over a few basics can go a long way in making the timing smoother. Explaining which signals affect the clocks, including the woope-doo (S1*) will hopefully adjust the ECO/PCOs head so its in the game all game long.

Last resort if the continually screw up would be to shut the clocks off and send the guy home.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by Suudy

there as about :10 left on the clock. The coach decided to let the clock run out (I'm in WA, so NFHS rules). Our WH (the experienced, classy guy that he is) walked to both head coaches, explained there would be one untimed down, then made the signal and signaled the ready. At the snap, the clock operator started the clock.

I'm confused. The clock ran out before the snap leaving 0:00 on the clock.

The R then signals for an untimed down. At the snap the clock operator starts the clock. How much time was on the clock at the snap?

[stratref]

Originally Posted by waltjp

I'm confused. The clock ran out before the snap leaving 0:00 on the clock.

The R then signals for an untimed down. At the snap the clock operator starts the clock. How much time was on the clock at the snap?

I'm guessing that the clock operator set the clock to 12:00 to be ready to start the 2nd quarter and ran the clock when the play happened and didn't figure out to reset the clock when the teams switched ends.

Jasper

[ajmc]

Invariably these situations tend to cause some level of confusion. It can be extremely helpful in minimizing that confusion, when the explanation regarding whatever pwnalty has been called, includes the timing ramifications and the prodedure for an "untimed down" if one becomes necessary.

Since field clocks have been available, our chapter requires whenever a field clock is operated during (any level) contest, it is operated only by a certified member official, who is fully dressed and considered a member of the game officiating crew. If a field clock being used becomes inoperable, the Referee will decide whether the timer will assume a field official's position, and continue to keep the game time on the field, or the timer will position himself off the field along the sideline and maintain the time.

Whenever the official time is kept on the field, or along a sideline, the field clock will NOT operate as an unofficial timepiece. This practice has been very beneficial in minimizing problems, or disputes, related to game timing issues.

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by waltjp

I'm confused. The clock ran out before the snap leaving 0:00 on the clock.

Right. There was an accepted penalty on the last timed down, but time didn't run out until we restarted the clock after enforcement (the play ended inbounds).

Originally Posted by waltjp

The R then signals for an untimed down. At the snap the clock operator starts the clock. How much time was on the clock at the snap?

There was 12:00 at the snap, since the clock operator reset the clock. But in reality, there was still :00 since the quarter didn't end. Since it was an untimed down, the clock should not have been started.

But this reminds me. What would be the proper handling of the play clock in this situation? As I remember it, we let the clock run down to :00, then notified the coaches of the untimed down, then gave A another :25.

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by stratref

I'm guessing that the clock operator set the clock to 12:00 to be ready to start the 2nd quarter and ran the clock when the play happened and didn't figure out to reset the clock when the teams switched ends.

Bingo. The guy just didn't get it. But really, what is the hand signal to let the guy know to reset the clock when we don't have PA equipment? We had to send a runner (the home ball boy) up to the press box to let him know.

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Since field clocks have been available, our chapter requires whenever a field clock is operated during (any level) contest, it is operated only by a certified member official, who is fully dressed and considered a member of the game officiating crew.

Ah, wouldn't that be nice! We are lucky to have enough guys to field 5 men crews for the big schools. The smaller schools (and the 8-men teams) only get 4. And we never have subs available, so if someone goes down....

We never actually meet the clock guys, since most of them are old timers that have been doing it for 20+ years. They know the routine. But sometimes, you get a sub or a new guy. But it is a good idea to get them down to the field. I've done the chains at college games, and both clock operators (game clock and the play clock) are there with us to meet with the HL. Unfortunately, I imagine some resistance to this were we to attempt it. I'm in eastern WA, in small farm towns, and these are the kind of guys that are not too keen on change.

[stratref]

Originally Posted by Suudy

Bingo. The guy just didn't get it. But really, what is the hand signal to let the guy know to reset the clock when we don't have PA equipment? We had to send a runner (the home ball boy) up to the press box to let him know.

Assuming a Varsity game 75%+ have a press box where there are coaches watching the game and taking on headsets, just have them call up. I have had it happen and we get a relay up there when we are switching ends, it never takes more than 2 mins (just an extra long quarter break) unless the clock operator doesn't know what is going on (youth league).

Jasper

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Suudy

Right. There was an accepted penalty on the last timed down, but time didn't run out until we restarted the clock after enforcement (the play ended inbounds).


There was 12:00 at the snap, since the clock operator reset the clock. But in reality, there was still :00 since the quarter didn't end. Since it was an untimed down, the clock should not have been started.

But this reminds me. What would be the proper handling of the play clock in this situation? As I remember it, we let the clock run down to :00, then notified the coaches of the untimed down, then gave A another :25.

We had a thread on this about a year ago. At least some people were promoting what I thought to be an overly complicated mechanic. We were arguing about what would be less likely to confuse the coaches & players. I thought keeping it simple -- explaining it to the benches, letting the clock run to 0 if that happens, ignoring any sort of automatic siren or horn, just keeping the ball RFP for 25 secs. Some were saying that after the explanation, in those few seconds the coaches and players would forget your explanation, so they said to explain it, whistle at 0, explain it again, and make the ball RFP again -- whew!

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by stratref

Assuming a Varsity game 75%+ have a press box where there are coaches watching the game and taking on headsets, just have them call up. I have had it happen and we get a relay up there when we are switching ends, it never takes more than 2 mins (just an extra long quarter break) unless the clock operator doesn't know what is going on (youth league).

Jasper

Did I say I was in Eastern WA?

I think only one school has headsets. One school actually operates the scoreboard from the roof of the gym, where the scoreboard is mounted. That same school doesn't even have lights and plays varsity games at 2pm Fri.

[stratref]

Originally Posted by Suudy

Did I say I was in Eastern WA?

I think only one school has headsets. One school actually operates the scoreboard from the roof of the gym, where the scoreboard is mounted. That same school doesn't even have lights and plays varsity games at 2pm Fri.

Fair enough, I am from Southwest Washington and see a few of those eastern teams each year and they always bring head sets with them, I guess I normally see the bigger (2A-4A) schools. I know that the east side of the state takes their football very seriously. I am just surprised because even our 1B and 2B teams down here use headsets and have fields with press boxes. Again I guess I shouldn't guess because 2 of our smaller schools just borrow an open field of a larger school and can play their "home" games at 3 or 4 different fields each year.
We also have a team that doesn't have lights and plays its varsity games start anywhere between 1pm and 3pm on Fridays with the occasional 3pm Thursday and 1pm Saturday starts.

Jasper

[Suudy]

Originally Posted by stratref

Fair enough, I am from Southwest Washington and see a few of those eastern teams each year and they always bring head sets with them, I guess I normally see the bigger (2A-4A) schools. I know that the east side of the state takes their football very seriously. I am just surprised because even our 1B and 2B teams down here use headsets and have fields with press boxes. Again I guess I shouldn't guess because 2 of our smaller schools just borrow an open field of a larger school and can play their "home" games at 3 or 4 different fields each year.

We have a couple of schools that do have headsets. Pullman and Clarkston do. But their clock operators are rock solid guys. They know what they are doing. But the smaller schools, say Lac-Wash, St John, Tekoa, etc, don't. And it is the bigger schools that do have headsets.

We only have 2 2A schools, 1 A school, and the rest are B-11 and B-8 schools. When I was in the Seattle area, I did some big schools (Snohomish county) and they were light years ahead of the schools I did in Eastern WA in terms of equipment, coaching, venues, players, etc.

The funny thing is that the playoff game I did was the Pullman-Orting quarterfinal that was played at WSU. Pullman's announcer is a high school kid (even during the regular season; I think its part of some class). So he really didn't know what was going on. And since the clock operator and the announcer are in different rooms in Martin Stadium, he probably couldn't be corrected.

Originally Posted by stratref

We also have a team that doesn't have lights and plays its varsity games start anywhere between 1pm and 3pm on Fridays with the occasional 3pm Thursday and 1pm Saturday starts.

Aren't those fun? I have trouble getting enough JV/Jr High games under my belt to be eligible for a playoff spot (our association requires JV/Jr High participation) because of the early start times. Getting off work at 11am so we can drive over an hour to do a Friday afternoon game stinks.