Untimed Down??

[BoBo]

With 12 seconds to go in the 1st quarter A55 is called for holding on a run that ends up in bounds.

After the enforcement of the penalty the Ref winds the clock for the ready for play.

A stays in the huddle to let the time run out.

IN THIS SITUATION WE WILL HAVE ONE UNTIMED DOWN- CORRECT?

Same situation as above but A tries to run a play and we have a dead ball false start on the offense.

After the enforcement of the dead ball penalty the Ref winds the clock for the ready for play.

Once again the clock runs out.

IN THIS SITUATION DO WE HAVE ONE UNTIMED DOWN?

Rule book states dead ball fouls do not constitute and untimed down. Or is this still considered a replay of the live ball foul play?

[Warrenkicker]

Yes and yes.

The dead ball foul does not remove the requirement. We have to have another down and a dead ball foul does not allow a down to begin.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by BoBo

With 12 seconds to go in the 1st quarter A55 is called for holding on a run that ends up in bounds.

After the enforcement of the penalty the Ref winds the clock for the ready for play.

A stays in the huddle to let the time run out.

IN THIS SITUATION WE WILL HAVE ONE UNTIMED DOWN- CORRECT?

Same situation as above but A tries to run a play and we have a dead ball false start on the offense.

After the enforcement of the dead ball penalty the Ref winds the clock for the ready for play.

Once again the clock runs out.

IN THIS SITUATION DO WE HAVE ONE UNTIMED DOWN?

Rule book states dead ball fouls do not constitute and untimed down. Or is this still considered a replay of the live ball foul play?

REPLY: In the first scenario, yes...you will have an untimed down. Why? Because there was a foul during the last timed down of the 1st period and the penalty was accepted and enforced. Remember the definition of the word "down." A dead ball period is never part of a down. "During" the down implies that the foul occurred while the ball was live and in play.

In the second scenario, as long as you're saying that the hold still occurred during the last timed down, then yes...there will be an untimed down after enforcement of the penalties for the hold and then for the false start.

[BoBo]

Well that is what i think but the state here is stuck on the dead ball issue.

My stance is the replayed down never started so how can it all of a sudden disappear with out any play being played.

[waltjp]

Originally Posted by BoBo

Well that is what i think but the state here is stuck on the dead ball issue.

My stance is the replayed down never started so how can it all of a sudden disappear with out any play being played.

There's a case book play that supports the untimed down. I'll post it when I get a chance.