Excessive celebration-Pinstripe Bowl

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

According to this article, Randy Edsall, head coach of Connecticut and chairman of the rules committee agrees the call was the correct. Officials have been instructed to be very strict. It was mentioned that each play will be reviewed as well as each official. Perhaps there will be some discipline to the other 3 calls that were apparently missed.

NCAA officials coordinator backs calls in Pinstripe, Music City Bowls - Campus Rivalry: College Football & Basketball News, Recruiting, Game Picks, and More - USATODAY.com

We already know the throat slash in the UNC-UT game should have been flagged as 9-2-1a specifically addresses it.

I wonder what Parry and Edsall think of the three salutes and belt buckle that were not called in that game.

[JasonTX]

Originally Posted by sloth

First of all, the Big 10 bashing shows ignorance at it's finest. This is about individual officials making a judgement call in an area of the game that is very subjective. I'm not passing judgement on this call, but I will say this...in a situtaion like this I'm thinking about the pluses and minuses about throwing that flag. If the crew overlooks this fould, no one one notices. SportsCenter isn't running stories about how the officials blew a celebration foul and this thread wouldn't exist. The fact that we are talking about this, makes me think that it should have been passed on. We need to strive to be unseen and un-noticed in our craft...now sometimes thats imposible...but I think on a minor celebration foul late in a game...we have to really think about how we are going to handle this....espically with the enforcment changes for 2011.

I think this situation can lead to a lot of discussion in the off-season with the changes I mentioned to USC's being live ball fouls in 2011.

I wouldn't have made the call myself but I also don't think about how Sportscenter or other officials will perceive my call either before I make it. Every year we have one of these calls that gets all the attention and that has been pretty consistent each year.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by sloth

If the crew overlooks this fould, no one one notices. SportsCenter isn't running stories about how the officials blew a celebration foul and this thread wouldn't exist. The fact that we are talking about this, makes me think that it should have been passed on.

People complain about things which are not called as fouls all the time. Officials get calls 100% correct and ESPN runs stories saying they are wrong. Your logic doesn't make any sense.

Originally Posted by sloth

We need to strive to be unseen and un-noticed in our craft

I don't know why people say thing all the time; it is just some stupid statement that you are likely to hear from some sportscaster. How about striving to officiate the game properly? That may mean making a big call at the end of the game which focuses attention on yourself.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by sloth

My job (as I see it) is to (1) insure player safety (2) insure integrity of the game is upheld (FS/shifts/motion/more than 11 players, etc) and (3) insure that one team does not gain an unfair advantage over another team during a play situation (holding and point of attack/DPI/OPI, etc).

I notice that "being unseen" is not part of the job as you see it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by sloth

First of all, the Big 10 bashing shows ignorance at it's finest. This is about individual officials making a judgement call in an area of the game that is very subjective.

Ah no, it doesn't and it's about much more than that. It's obviously reflects on Big Ten officiating. It reflects on the inconsistency between one crew and another, which reflects on their training.

The Music City Bowl referee studdering and stumbling through most of his penalty announcements and explanation reflected poorly as well. Perhaps he's a fine offical but his certainly wasn't the best face for the Big Ten. I've never seen a referee appear to be that nervous.

[HLin NC]

The Music City Bowl referee studdering and stumbling through most of his penalty announcements and explanation reflected poorly as well. Perhaps he's a fine offical but his certainly wasn't the best face for the Big Ten. I've never seen a referee appear to be that nervous.
__________________

I noted the same. Like it or not, as these conferences push hard for the big TV dollars, that is a small thing they are going to have to keep in mind. I don't expect Ed Hochuli type mic work but that guy seemed as if he had just moved to R before the bowl from another position.

As one my old hoops coaches used to say, "He's got no rap."

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Ah no, it doesn't and it's about much more than that. It's obviously reflects on Big Ten officiating. It reflects on the inconsistency between one crew and another, which reflects on their training.

The Music City Bowl referee studdering and stumbling through most of his penalty announcements and explanation reflected poorly as well. Perhaps he's a fine offical but his certainly wasn't the best face for the Big Ten. I've never seen a referee appear to be that nervous.

Will you stop it please!!!

For one there is a reason why certain officials get assigned certain games at all levels. You earn that right because you or your crew made the fewest mistakes in your evaluation system. Like it or not these are individuals on individual crews. What someone on another crew does is irrelevant in the bigger picture. I know many Big Ten officials and many Big Ten crew chiefs (as well as guys in the MAC and other Alliance conferences) and what they do is hard. And if they do not do what is asked of them they will not work and that includes Bowl games. What someone does in another game has nothing to do with what happens in your game. If the Big Ten does not like the call these guys will know. If there is inconsistency they will hear about it in their meetings and other correspondence. You can only control what you call in your game. You should know that being an official. I do not ever care what someone else does in their games because what I do will stand alone and be evaluated. And these rules have been talked about at the NCAA level extensively and I am sure in their conference. You can go on and on about how this reflects on the Big Ten but only uneducated people would think that. There are reasons that some guys make it in the Big Ten and others do not make it there. There are reasons that some guys go to Bowl games and others are sitting at home. Not to say that this was clearly the right call, but they will hear about it either way and based on some preliminary statements the higher ups liked the application. And at the NCAA, the coaches are the ones that write and create these rules. Officials are asked to enforce them and if they don't, they will find a few thousand people willing to take their spot and qualified to do their job, trust me on that one.


Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Will you stop it please!!!

No, I will not stop it. This is a forum and I'm allowed to express my opinion without worrying about whether you like it or not. Don't like it, don't read it.

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

No, I will not stop it. This is a forum and I'm allowed to express my opinion without worrying about whether you like it or not. Don't like it, don't read it.

How is he supposed to know if he likes your opinion if he doesn't read it first? By the time he realizes he doesn't like it he has already read it. Your post really makes no sense at all.

[ajmc]

Wow, some of the unmitigated silliness offered on this subject is staggering. Every single player who is a member of a collegiate football team anywhere in the nation has been advised to avoid the showmanship nonsense celebrated by ESPN and other media outlets.

As has been know since time immemorial (or should have been) "If you can't do the time, DON'T DO THE CRIME". A player wants to gamble, places his own celebration ahead of his team and accepts the risks of his actions has to also accept the possible consequences of his actions. Whining and complaining about being punished, as you should have absolutely expected, just doesn't cut it.

Bad behavior by others should NEVER be considered an excuse, or license, to behave badly. Those of us who question another official's integrity, courage or ability should have some extremely hard evidence to back up their assumptions, or simply keep their mouths shut.

Of course if you've already worked your first perfect game, you can pontificate all you want, but until you do you might consider your own last assignment and how far you may have been from achieving perfection before polishing your halo.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by ajmc

Every single player who is a member of a collegiate football team anywhere in the nation has been advised to avoid the showmanship nonsense celebrated by ESPN and other media outlets.

As has been know since time immemorial (or should have been) "If you can't do the time, DON'T DO THE CRIME". A player wants to gamble, places his own celebration ahead of his team and accepts the risks of his actions has to also accept the possible consequences of his actions. Whining and complaining about being punished, as you should have absolutely expected, just doesn't cut it.

None of that justifies making a call that shouldn't be made.

[quote]Bad behavior by others should NEVER be considered an excuse, or license, to behave badly. Those of us who question another official's integrity, courage or ability should have some extremely hard evidence to back up their assumptions, or simply keep their mouths shut.

The evidence is listed in the bullet points that TXMike listed earlier in the thread. Had those bullet points but followed, the flag never would have been thrown.

Of course if you've already worked your first perfect game, you can pontificate all you want, but until you do you might consider your own last assignment and how far you may have been from achieving perfection before polishing your halo.

That's very weak. I guess it's supposed to make anyone who's ever questioned anything feel guilty. Doesn't work for me. None of us has worked a perfect game. That doesn't mean situations can't be discussed or mistakes pointed out. They can and will continue to be discussed.

As I've said from the get-go, the way the rules and guidelines are written, it puts the offiicals in position to be the bad guy and the scape goat.

Oh, and Geofrrey, I will continue to post on this an other boards without regard to your opinions your illusions that you can tell me to stop.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Cobra

How is he supposed to know if he likes your opinion if he doesn't read it first? By the time he realizes he doesn't like it he has already read it. Your post really makes no sense at all.

Tony is a guy that thinks he can bully everyone that disagrees with him and name call when he is called to the carpet. This is no different. And I would expect a person of his stature to no better considering he is a State Final official two times and probably has had success because he does what is good for his career. But then again I do not know if he even works a single college football game or is on a staff. I am on an alternate on a college staff and I can tell you in every one of my games I do what is best for me and what fits the crew philosophy. I do not give a damn what some other official on the staff does or does not do. And I am sure that is what was going through the mind of the officials that made the call (two of them made this call BTW). So all their training and experience came into play and they are very aware of the tape and how they will be perceived if they do not call the foul by the evaluators. They could give a damn individually what the Big Ten is seen on a call that is in their game. That is the evaluator's job if they even care. And if he does not like my comments about what he says he cannot post them on a public forum so everyone can see them.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

No, I will not stop it. This is a forum and I'm allowed to express my opinion without worrying about whether you like it or not. Don't like it, don't read it.

It is an expression relax!!! This is not the NF forum where you can dictate what I say.

You can express whatever opinion you like, but that does not mean it is based on knowledge or competence. Do you work any college football? Maybe if you did I would understand your position. You do not have to answer and I will read whatever I like and comment on whatever I like on this forum. You cannot ban me because I call you out here.

Peace