Excessive celebration-Pinstripe Bowl

[refereefollower]

jimpiano,

Although, I did not see the call in question, I question your approach and opinion about the Big Ten Conference selections for this year's bowl season.

The Big Ten has sent its best officials at every position to every one of its bowl game assignments including this year's BCS National Championship.

Also, across the board from high school to the NFL post scoring play showboating has been a point of emphasis on officiating crews.....so whether you or other officials agree or disagree with the call.....the crew was at least watching what happened after the play

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

From an outsider's perspective it seemed harsh at a critical juncture in the game.

While I don't know what type of instruction Big Ten crews have had regarding this type of display, I do know that when it happens has nothing to do with whether it should be flagged or not. If that's a foul in the 1st qtr. it's a foul in the 4th quarter.

What is telling is that the exact same thing has happened twice in the UNC-UT game but no call has been made.

Originally Posted by refereefollower

jimpiano,

Although, I did not see the call in question, I question your approach and opinion about the Big Ten Conference selections for this year's bowl season.

Pay him no mind. He's not an official. He's just a fanboy who posts here whenever there's a controversial call made. He's not here to participate in a discussion, just to stir trouble. Put him on your Ignore List.

[refereefollower]

Thanks for the heads up bktballref for the heads up.....I will do that

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

While I don't know what type of instruction Big Ten crews have had regarding this type of display, I do know that when it happens has nothing to do with whether it should be flagged or not. If that's a foul in the 1st qtr. it's a foul in the 4th quarter.

What is telling is that the exact same thing has happened twice in the UNC-UT game but no call has been made.

This is the part that makes the call difficult to swallow - as was discussed at some length by Mark May and Lou Holtz....and the refs were apparently from the same conference!

[RedCashions]

Originally Posted by refereefollower

.....the crew was at least watching what happened after the play

Must have missed the flashing of the O sign after an Orangeman touchdown. Being a Big Ten crew they must find this to be a penalty only when done by an Ohio State player. And the exhibition at mid field following a sack on the KSU QB in the fourth; afterwhich, the player unbuckled his helmet and slowly ran his hand up his body was not considered a violation of either the spirit or the letter of the world!? I have officialte for over 30 years can not wrap my head around the calls (made and not made) at that juncture of the game. But then again, I wondered what Synder was thinking about going for it on 4th and 5. It's too bad a fun game to watch will be debated over the call made by the officals and not the coaches.

[ILRef80]

It's tough to defend this one. I have no allegiance whatsoever to Kansas State. I just can't see how you make that call. It was a simple salute to his own fans. It lasted all of one second. The kid didn't even pause. Simple gestures like that happen in every football game, at every level. I'm up for hearing the opposing viewpoint, but I think it's pretty clear that this was an inappropriate flag.

[BktBallRef]

Tennessee players, both the receivers and the QB did it after all three TS passes, as well as one receiver who pulled the belt buckle gag. No flags for any of those, Big Ten crew as well. That's real hard for fans to understand, much less officials.

[JasonTX]

Plays like this were on the NCAA training video this year that instruct officials to flag this. He could have just as easily walked to his team area but instead he put the officials in a position to make a judgement call. 2 officials flagged it independently of each other. What do you do when you have a rule that says it's a foul?

[junruh07]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

Plays like this were on the NCAA training video this year that instruct officials to flag this. He could have just as easily walked to his team area but instead he put the officials in a position to make a judgement call. 2 officials flagged it independently of each other. What do you do when you have a rule that says it's a foul?

Obviously, you call the foul. Because of the two flags, I figured that this crew had run into this situation earlier in the season or in training, and someone told them to penalize this action. Where it becomes frustrating is when very similar, or even bigger, actions in other games are not penalized. It isn't just frustrating for the fans of that team, but also for others who are quick to criticize, but slow to look up the actual rule. For the record, I am a K-State student and fan, but I really am a basketball official, so I am trying really hard to participate in the discussion but not be a fanboy.

[ottobabble]

Originally Posted by junruh07

Obviously, you call the foul. Because of the two flags, I figured that this crew had run into this situation earlier in the season or in training, and someone told them to penalize this action. Where it becomes frustrating is when very similar, or even bigger, actions in other games are not penalized. It isn't just frustrating for the fans of that team, but also for others who are quick to criticize, but slow to look up the actual rule. For the record, I am a K-State student and fan, but I really am a basketball official, so I am trying really hard to participate in the discussion but not be a fanboy.

I totally understand this, but how can a salute be seen as excessive and not the "O" crap the Syracuse player did especially after the "throw back" TD? If you look at this play, why was it OK for the Syracuse player to grab the KSU player 8 yards deep in the EZ just before the KSU player saluted?

KSU lost this game for a lot of reasons (horrible defense, questionable coaching decisions, etc...) other than a horse crud call (in my humble opinion). Two flags on that doesn't change my opinion of it. Why did they chose this one to flag and not flag all the other obvious "calling attention to themselves" acts.

I will offer one possbile explaination, there could have been warnings communicated to the KSU sideline prior to this, and if so, I put it all on the player and the coaching staff.

Obviously there is inconsistency in how the rule is interpreted across the country and that needs to be fixed pronto.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

Plays like this were on the NCAA training video this year that instruct officials to flag this. He could have just as easily walked to his team area but instead he put the officials in a position to make a judgement call. 2 officials flagged it independently of each other. What do you do when you have a rule that says it's a foul?

OK, I can with that. But why doesn't another crew from the same conference make the same call when players in their game repeatedly commit the same act? That's inconsistency and it makes the crew look very bad.

[RealityCheck]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

OK, I can with that. But why doesn't another crew from the same conference make the same call when players in their game repeatedly commit the same act? That's inconsistency and it makes the crew look very bad.

Big Ten officiating had a bad day all around...this crew flags a minor salute that should draw a warning at most and the UNC-Tennessee crew can't count to 12 (players participating in formation).

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JasonTX

Plays like this were on the NCAA training video this year that instruct officials to flag this. He could have just as easily walked to his team area but instead he put the officials in a position to make a judgement call. 2 officials flagged it independently of each other. What do you do when you have a rule that says it's a foul?

When no one else is calling it that way, you don't call it. It was extremely inconsistent with the normal level of enforcement on post-score celebrations.

Originally Posted by Cobra

Not really...you are making it sound like the official is disregarding the bullet points.

You are saying that if the official had done it the way the memo instructs that a foul would not have been called.

I read those bullet points...by what is written by the NCAA the action didn't fit the NCAA's criteria for a flag.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I read those bullet points...by what is written by the NCAA the action didn't fit the NCAA's criteria for a flag.

Well did you see the video examples? There have been a lot of videos on these situations and gestures to the crowd that were deemed illegal. Maybe there was not a "salute" but there are many actions including several signals that were said to be illegal and inappropriate.

Peace

[Blue37]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Tennessee players, both the receivers and the QB did it after all three TS passes, as well as one receiver who pulled the belt buckle gag. No flags for any of those, Big Ten crew as well. That's real hard for fans to understand, much less officials.

What is the "belt buckle gag"?