Pittsburg/Miami Fumble

[shave-tail]

After watching the clip of this play several times, it appears to me that the correct call should have been an inadvertant whistle which in the end would still award the ball to Pittsburg. Watching the clip you can see the linesman coming in indicating a touchdown and I'm sure blowing his whistle, when the reverse view shows the ball is out and has been recovered yet.

Saying we don't know who recovered the ball only makes me think that they decided to say that instead of IW, because why would the officials all stop doing their job unless they also heard the whistle and saw the touchdown signal?

Also, I believe the NFL has a rule about fumbling forward especially into the end zone (the Snake from Oakland rule). I'm not sure if this rule applies here because I don't know all the details that goes alone with this rule...does anyone know the rule and if it would have applied to this play?

BTW, I don't have a dog in the race...did not care who won but the rules interpretation of this play interests me.

[APG]

If the play would have happened under the two minute warning or was a fourth down play/try, then the fumbler is the only Team A member who would of been allowed to recover and advance ball. If another player on team A would of recovered the ball, it would revert back to the spot of the fumble or the recovery spot, whichever is worse. As the play occurred outside the two minute warning and was not on fourth down/a try, then a recovery by the Steelers would of resulted in a touchdown.

The rule about fumbling forward says that if the ball is fumbled forward and out of fumbles, it reverts back to the spot of the fumble.

Also, aside from the officials erroneously saying the ball crossed the plane of the endzone, the play was handled correctly.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5726781

[mbyron]

Had another "early" whistle in Monday night's game. Ball popped out and the defense recovered.

[JasonLJ]

Originally Posted by shave-tail

After watching the clip of this play several times, it appears to me that the correct call should have been an inadvertant whistle which in the end would still award the ball to Pittsburg. Watching the clip you can see the linesman coming in indicating a touchdown and I'm sure blowing his whistle, when the reverse view shows the ball is out and has been recovered yet.

Saying we don't know who recovered the ball only makes me think that they decided to say that instead of IW, because why would the officials all stop doing their job unless they also heard the whistle and saw the touchdown signal?

Also, I believe the NFL has a rule about fumbling forward especially into the end zone (the Snake from Oakland rule). I'm not sure if this rule applies here because I don't know all the details that goes alone with this rule...does anyone know the rule and if it would have applied to this play?

BTW, I don't have a dog in the race...did not care who won but the rules interpretation of this play interests me.

How can it be an IW if in his opinion the ball broke the goal line before the fumble, therefore making it a dead ball and play over?

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by shave-tail

Saying we don't know who recovered the ball only makes me think that they decided to say that instead of IW, because why would the officials all stop doing their job unless they also heard the whistle and saw the touchdown signal?

No, it wasn't clear on video who recovered the ball. If it was clear then they would have given them the ball. This is not an IW.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Cobra

No, it wasn't clear on video who recovered the ball. If it was clear then they would have given them the ball. This is not an IW.

How was it not clear? A Dolphin handed the ball to the referee.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

How was it not clear? A Dolphin handed the ball to the referee.

I see B pick up a dead ball and hand it to an official every week. We know it was dead at that point. What we don't know is who had it when it became dead.

[asdf]

How many times have you seen the ball given back to the fumbling team because the officials had no idea who had the ball when it became dead?

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by asdf

How many times have you seen the ball given back to the fumbling team because the officials had no idea who had the ball when it became dead?

I think this is the second time I've seen it. I agree that they should have kept working when the ball came loose, but they didn't. Guessing that the Dolphins recovered it doesn't correct the first error. You wouldn't make a guess as to how a play would have ended if you had an IW either.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by JasonLJ

How can it be an IW if in his opinion the ball broke the goal line before the fumble, therefore making it a dead ball and play over?

Because he was wrong. The ball was loose, it wasn't a TD and he shouldn't have blown.

Whether it was an IW or not under NFL rules, I don't know. But that is pretty much the way it was treated.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by asdf

How many times have you seen the ball given back to the fumbling team because the officials had no idea who had the ball when it became dead?

Not THAT often. Maybe twice that I can remember. You know all the pileups are scrums and the ball changes hands 20 times in there... what is nearly always ruled is who has it when they finally get to the bottom of the pile, which, in this case, was the Dolphins.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by JasonLJ

How can it be an IW if in his opinion the ball broke the goal line before the fumble, therefore making it a dead ball and play over?

What kind of question is that? How can it be an IW if in my opinion the ballcarrier was down on my side and I blow the whistle, only to learn the ball is nowhere near me? Answer: It can, and it is. Ditto the sitch here. HL THOUGHT the play was over, but it wasn't.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Not THAT often. Maybe twice that I can remember. You know all the pileups are scrums and the ball changes hands 20 times in there... what is nearly always ruled is who has it when they finally get to the bottom of the pile, which, in this case, was the Dolphins.

It's nearly always ruled that way, but they also nearly always work to unpile the players and find the ball.

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

What kind of question is that? How can it be an IW if in my opinion the ballcarrier was down on my side and I blow the whistle, only to learn the ball is nowhere near me? Answer: It can, and it is. Ditto the sitch here. HL THOUGHT the play was over, but it wasn't.

The question I have here is do the rules allow an instant replay review change the result of the play to an inadvertent whistle?

[Cobra]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

How was it not clear? A Dolphin handed the ball to the referee.

Who ends up with the ball does not matter. It was not clear who recovered the ball. There was a big pile on the ground with people diving for the ball; it was not clear who recovered the ball.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Whether it was an IW or not under NFL rules, I don't know. But that is pretty much the way it was treated.

This play was no different than any other challenge on a fumble in the NFL when the initial call was no fumble. It has to be clear which team recovers the ball in order to give them the ball. Normally it is clear, this time it was not.

[wwcfoa43]

The problem is that the Replay System requires indisputable visual evidence to award the ball.

I remember Mike Pereira on officials review talking about the change that allowed more fumbles to be reviewed and he was clear that there was no way they were going to use Instant Replay to award possession in a scrum situation.