Illegal motion or shift?

[Refsmitty]

Indiana - Michigan game... quarterback in shotgun - begins walking towards the LOS to go under center - never stops - takes the snap direct from center and continues moving foward with a sneak... penalty?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Refsmitty

Indiana - Michigan game... quarterback in shotgun - begins walking towards the LOS to go under center - never stops - takes the snap direct from center and continues moving foward with a sneak... penalty?

Illegal motion.

[JRutledge]

I did not see the play, but are you saying the QB took a snap and never stopped for a moment? That would seem hard to do and successfully take a snap.

Peace

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Illegal motion.

If he stopped but for less than a second -- which is more likely as I picture this play -- you'd have an illegal shift.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

If he stopped but for less than a second -- which is more likely as I picture this play -- you'd have an illegal shift.

I suspect you're right, but given the OP as written, IM.

[Canned Heat]

Originally Posted by mbyron

If he stopped but for less than a second -- which is more likely as I picture this play -- you'd have an illegal shift.

Had this actually happen in a JV game a few weeks back. Flanker went in motion and got reset....LB shifted to the outside. QB came forward and was still creeping forward when he got the ball...no 1 second pause or getting set. Tried QB sneak up middle. Flag at snap.

Play was on 4th down...Team A didn't get 1st down...B declined penalty and took ball, tournover on downs.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I did not see the play, but are you saying the QB took a snap and never stopped for a moment? That would seem hard to do and successfully take a snap.

Not as hard as you think. In fact it used to be common for a player to thrust hands under center for the ball just as the snap was made. Combining that with foot motion would be simple if it wasn't fast motion. Wouldn't surprise me at all if this sort of move was common now in Canadian football, where it's legal.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Not as hard as you think. In fact it used to be common for a player to thrust hands under center for the ball just as the snap was made. Combining that with foot motion would be simple if it wasn't fast motion. Wouldn't surprise me at all if this sort of move was common now in Canadian football, where it's legal.

I am sure it happened that way, just have not seen it to where I can imagine that happening. But if it did then a foul is appropriate. Again, for me this would have been a first.

Peace

[bigjohn]

2008 NFHS Football Rules Page 90 POE section

MOTION
Legal motion at the snap is allowed by rule as an offensive maneuver. Only one offensive
player – either a back or a player on the end of the line, but no interior linemen – may be in
motion at the snap, and then, only if such motion is not toward his opponent’s goal line.
Except for the quarterback under the snapper, the player in motion who started from a
position not clearly behind the line of scrimmage and did not establish himself as a back by
stopping for at least one full second, must be at least 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage
at the snap. Either a player legally in the backfield or a player legally on the end of the line
of scrimmage may go in motion if these previous requirements are satisfied.
Illegal motion occurs whenever the quarterback steps forward placing his or her hands
under the snapper at the instant the snap is made. If the quarterback places his or her
hands under the snapper without stepping forward, it will be a shift and not motion. If the
quarterback steps forward and places their hands under the snapper and the snap is made
after they are motionless for one second, the action is legal. If the quarterback with his
hands under the snapper were to step backward with one foot as the snap is made, this
action would be legal provided no teammate is also moving at the snap. Illegal motion
occurs when any player in motion is moving toward the opponent’s goal line at the snap. It
is also illegal motion if an end goes in motion and is not at least 5-yards behind the line at
the snap unless he or she stops and positions himself or herself as a back for at least one
full second prior to the snap.
A player’s motion movement can be such that his or her head and body are facing the
sideline to which he or she is moving, or a sliding movement while he or she is facing the
opponent’s goal line, or the direction of his or her motion may change several times before
the snap. Illegal motion is always a live ball foul occurring at the snap resulting in a 5-yard
penalty from the previous spot.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by mbyron

If he stopped but for less than a second -- which is more likely as I picture this play -- you'd have an illegal shift.

In NCAA, a shift involves two or more players, so assuming this is the only player moving, I think it would either be illegal motion or nothing.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Welpe

In NCAA, a shift involves two or more players, so assuming this is the only player moving, I think it would either be illegal motion or nothing.

Really? So if you have one player "shift," set for less than a second, and the ball is snapped, you have no foul?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Really? So if you have one player "shift," set for less than a second, and the ball is snapped, you have no foul?

Do you meant if you have one player go in motion (one player cannot shift)? He didn't say you'd have no foul - you'd have illegal motion.

[bigjohn]

ILLEGAL MOTION, SHIFT
7.2.7 SITUATION: The quarterback by voice command has signaled his teammates
to assume a set position while he is standing upright behind the center.
The quarterback steps forward and places his hands under the center to receive
the snap: (a) at the instant the snap is made; or (b) which is made after he is
motionless, but prior to one second having elapsed; or (c) which is made after he
is motionless for one second; or (d) which is made after he is motionless for one
second, but while he is stepping backward with one foot as the snap is made.
RULING: In (a), it is illegal motion. In (b), it is an illegal shift. In (c), it is legal. In
(d), it is legal unless a teammate is also in motion at the snap. COMMENT: If the
quarterback drops his hands under the snapper without stepping forward, it is a
shift and not motion. (2-39; 7-2-6)

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

ILLEGAL MOTION, SHIFT
7.2.7 SITUATION: The quarterback by voice command has signaled his teammates
to assume a set position while he is standing upright behind the center.
The quarterback steps forward and places his hands under the center to receive
the snap: (a) at the instant the snap is made; or (b) which is made after he is
motionless, but prior to one second having elapsed; or (c) which is made after he
is motionless for one second; or (d) which is made after he is motionless for one
second, but while he is stepping backward with one foot as the snap is made.
RULING: In (a), it is illegal motion. In (b), it is an illegal shift. In (c), it is legal. In
(d), it is legal unless a teammate is also in motion at the snap. COMMENT: If the
quarterback drops his hands under the snapper without stepping forward, it is a
shift and not motion. (2-39; 7-2-6)

Are you making a point, or just copying stuff?

There is no rule 7.2.7 nor AR 7.2.7.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Are you making a point, or just copying stuff?

There is no rule 7.2.7 nor AR 7.2.7.

He quoted a NF case play to answer an NCAA question.